Undead killing

[Scavenger]

Still feel the same Decom? ^^
UD are not that more difficult to deal with than orcsies. Combine deep chains with ambush and you'll have them at desirable nw size (=crappy gains) in no time. UD tend to do anything to keep their leets (releasing def, ospecs, thieves and even wizzies). Capitalize on that notion and even if they crawl back up, they're shut down just as fast without having to pull away much resources from other projects.

[SirVanir]

What's the big issue? That they keep their off too well? Is that really a problem? Most chained provs will be quad tapping other provs their own size regardless if they're undead or not. I'd be more worried if it was avians or orcs, since they're either faster or have significantly better gains, meaning they'll do more damage with their hits. Undeads using ws should be chained down as they won't have any land incoming and will pretty much be forced to release those precious elites. If they're doing anon hits, they're both slow and not gaining any honor, so what's the issue with them then?

People seem to believe that Undead is some super race that do many times more damage than other races. That's only true if you spread out the damage over a week of warring or more, and most wars will not last that long. Your basic need is dropping them out of nw range, so they're not effective in chains, and that's easier on undeads than most other races (since they're less likely to run any significant amount of hospitals, so their def dies fast). Undeads are so overrated this age that it's extremely silly.

I just got out of a war, we had 2 undeads in our kingdom that were not "with" our kingdom, they joined w/ the merger and did their own thing against the monarchs orders, which included running uber low defense (less then 40 dpa w/ army in) and super high offense and suiciding. They were dropped from ~700 apiece at start of war to ~350 and stayed in the 250-450~ range the entire rest of the war, and though they were that low, because they kept their offense sent out, they were able to chain the 750-1000 acre provinces w/ 4 attacks a set (warriors running rax so 2-3 sets a day) just the same as they would have been able to if they were at 700+ acres still, the only downfall was they could not keep it worth anything b/c they had no defense to begin with, but I have to admit, though they lost us the war (losing 1400 apiece that we just could not get back) their ability to maintain 8 attacks a day apiece for decent to great gains against the enemies main attackers, as well as massacring their top provinces near the end, for being our BOTTOM provinces, was quite a sight, and just goes to show the resilience and power of the undead.

Myself, I capped out at reaching ~1080 in the war, but around that time I became the focus target (lol tends to happen that way), and was immediately dropped down to ~600, but I climbed back up to 840 and held it through to the end

Let the building commence, it was really quite a war, 3 dragons apiece from each side, huge fluctuations in the war graphs, and of course like i said the low acre wreckless suiciders that were a likened to wild cards

Ahh, Utopia.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f3NWDbaJw4

Oh, and if you are wondering, yes, we took them out. They are no longer w/ us anymore, those 2 as well as another who was causing problems.

[Dekommissioner]

Undeads make for a great ghetto war attacker because they cannot be deep chained as effectively. They also are very likely to have low NW provinces to quad tap once they are brought down in size to play acre ping pong with. Against an organized kingdom that are all the same size, that Undead attacker suddenly is over-popped and even their best quad tap gains won't cover what they'll be losing. I think it all depends on the type of kingdom you're in determining how effective Undeads really are. Undeads will probably end up being early bloomers but by the time science kicks in for most provinces towards middle/end of age and their TPA/WPA is at an even more disadvantage things will balance out. That doesn't mean an all Undead kingdom can't be successful, a good group of players can make anything work - doesn't mean it would be as effective as another combination though.

[Hooah]

I just got out of a war, we had 2 undeads in our kingdom that were not "with" our kingdom, they joined w/ the merger and did their own thing against the monarchs orders, which included running uber low defense (less then 40 dpa w/ army in) and super high offense and suiciding. They were dropped from ~700 apiece at start of war to ~350 and stayed in the 250-450~ range the entire rest of the war, and though they were that low, because they kept their offense sent out, they were able to chain the 750-1000 acre provinces w/ 4 attacks a set (warriors running rax so 2-3 sets a day) just the same as they would have been able to if they were at 700+ acres still, the only downfall was they could not keep it worth anything b/c they had no defense to begin with, but I have to admit, though they lost us the war (losing 1400 apiece that we just could not get back) their ability to maintain 8 attacks a day apiece for decent to great gains against the enemies main attackers, as well as massacring their top provinces near the end, for being our BOTTOM provinces, was quite a sight, and just goes to show the resilience and power of the undead.

Myself, I capped out at reaching ~1080 in the war, but around that time I became the focus target (lol tends to happen that way), and was immediately dropped down to ~600, but I climbed back up to 840 and held it through to the end

Let the building commence, it was really quite a war, 3 dragons apiece from each side, huge fluctuations in the war graphs, and of course like i said the low acre wreckless suiciders that were a likened to wild cards

Ahh, Utopia.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f3NWDbaJw4

Oh, and if you are wondering, yes, we took them out. They are no longer w/ us anymore, those 2 as well as another who was causing problems.

I think you did your a kd a disservice. those two ran the same strat a lot of UD in my kd did and drew many attacks for the rest of the kd. so what did the rest of you do while they were getting pummeled? then they continue to get good gains if not great you say, not bad. so they did their part and did it well.

[SirVanir]

I think you did your a kd a disservice. those two ran the same strat a lot of UD in my kd did and drew many attacks for the rest of the kd. so what did the rest of you do while they were getting pummeled? then they continue to get good gains if not great you say, not bad. so they did their part and did it well.

no, trust me, they screwed everything up. They and the monarch of their former kingdom merged w/ us at start of age and they were completely resilient, defiant, and downright renegades (the rest of their kd liked our structure and our desire to be a top kd, though its down the drain for this age it seems now, but they had no trouble merging right in). One of them (the former monarch) decided to sabotage the war effort b/c he was leaving to play a different account in a different kingdom, and his two colleagues while not intentionally attempting to lose us the war (like the monarch was), they practically did so by following his corrupt orders and not listening to reason (or the *true* monarch of the kingdom), rather were content to be dropped over 550 acres apiece and not enough have enough defense to climb back up past 350, so any attacks they did make gave the other kingdom free pass to take back a lot of acreage for very little offense at a time (4-9k)

I can see where if an entire kingdom was following this sort of strategy, it *might* work, not because it seems viable (in my eyes, suiciding is never a good strategy), but because the entire kingdom would be coordinating towards that effort.

The fact that they were attempting to do their own thing, uncoordinated w/ the kingdom, against the will of the Monarch and rest of team mates, leaves me to having nothing else to say but: no, Hooah, I'm afraid I must disagree with you, I have done no disservice by following orders and doing my part of the war effort; and they did not do their part at all, let alone 'it well', unless of course you mean follow the province's orders (a province which threatened interkingdom razing if we didn't immediately begin listening to him ((even though he was about to leave, a real great leader ;))) anyway, the province who was their monarch the age prior, then yes, I suppose you could say they did that well, and lost us the war.

Oh, I forgot to say how their ex monarch 'sabotaged' the war, well, not only did he threaten that everyone needs to immediately begin listening to him (meaning his former kingdom mates as well as his new ones) or else he would begin inter kingdom razing, which in and of itself is not productive and not to mention the orders he spewed would have lead us to our death (exactly what he wanted, like I said, he was leaving anyway), but then aside from that little fiasco, he released 100% of his wizards, thieves, defense specs, and elites, and only kept ospecs (just in case???). Anyway, I don't want to sit here all day and give all the minute details, but suffice it to say, to sum it all up, I fail to see your logic of how I did a disservice to my kingdom and how they did their part and did it well, did u miss the part of my post where I mentioned my kingdom and I eliminated them from our team b/c of their resentment and unwillingness to change? They were not doing any part that was part of the strategy we run by (which is 'winning', not 'attempting'), and were only hindering/stressing out the kingdom.

Oh, and where in my former post I said 1400 apiece, I meant to say 1400 "together".

[Hallo]

Still feel the same Decom? ^^
UD are not that more difficult to deal with than orcsies. Combine deep chains with ambush and you'll have them at desirable nw size (=crappy gains) in no time. UD tend to do anything to keep their leets (releasing def, ospecs, thieves and even wizzies). Capitalize on that notion and even if they crawl back up, they're shut down just as fast without having to pull away much resources from other projects.

The problem is that too many monarchs don't quite get the whole "kill the chained" deal.
It's always "just an aid packet away" or too little gains (honor) or just plain isn't worth it.


What makes pure attackers strong is their ability to lash out after being chained. They need to be built from top to bottom as killing machines.... and with everyone running hybrids they seem to have forgotten just how much hell a pure attacker can bring. Instead of doing TRUE deep chaining it's chain until gains are low, instead of focusing attacks it's a war for bigs ( when the enemy has enough offense to make it near impossible ).

But perhaps, monarchs also fear being accused of attempted PK... my suggestion? Get over it.

[Lestat]

Lets be fair 2 provs dropping from 700 to 350 acres didn't lose you the war. With that kind of activity they probably kept you in it.

[Luc]

A drop from 700 to 350 is hardly a real chain either, for that matter, especially not if they had land incoming too.

[sammyseal]

i had one province similar to that last age , playing orc real suicider..and i was pissed at first. but after i looked at it i saw the real benefits, i used him as a lure to raise hostility levels and also his low defence mean the over kingdom concentrated on him and we could just slowly pick off our own acres and build up!, admittedly this was a 16 province ghetto, not a full out organised kingdom

[caracal]

opp the undead(s) off the bat, take out as much peasantry and rax/ TGs as you can and try to keep constant chastity meteor and storms on, then chain them down they will only be able to attack if they can pay their troops and it's more than likely ticks will go past with their elites sitting at home, also even with offense out, every tick you can't pay lowers your ME. if you do catch them at home NS propoganda and attack them to cripple the offense, main thing is not to get too focused on a province and let others out grow you, once you've chained them hit other provinces and save a little of your offense and 1 general to keep them down.

[Luc]

opp the undead(s) off the bat, take out as much peasantry and rax/ TGs as you can and try to keep constant chastity meteor and storms on, then chain them down they will only be able to attack if they can pay their troops and it's more than likely ticks will go past with their elites sitting at home, also even with offense out, every tick you can't pay lowers your ME. if you do catch them at home NS propoganda and attack them to cripple the offense, main thing is not to get too focused on a province and let others out grow you, once you've chained them hit other provinces and save a little of your offense and 1 general to keep them down.

You can NS at any time, since it kills troops that are out as well. It's not that great at killing elites though, compared to soldiers and specs.

[E_Boko]

this is true but NS seems to kill more troops that are at home then away. my thought might be tilted though because obviously i have more at home then out but it seems true.

[Luc]

this is true but NS seems to kill more troops that are at home then away. my thought might be tilted though because obviously i have more at home then out but it seems true.

I'm pretty sure that's people's minds playing games on them. People often attack with elites, and elites are more ns resistant.

[gojete]

SirVanir

I have been reading your war effort with great interest.

I just fail to understand how they lost you the war.
The monarch, realesed everything , screw him.
But the two other undead, they kept hitting.

What do you mean they lost the war. By losing acres?

From what I read. My understanding is that, your war was made with an agreement that if a certain kingdom was losing acres, that kingdom should surrender the war after a certain period of time?

If that is so, then you lost the war because you had rules for it in the first place, and did not want to keep fighting until the end.

If you are warrying with rules, then i understand, was it so?

Myself dont believe in rules , we just keep hitting until the end, right now we are in a war where the enemy began with 19 provinces against our 17 , and now they are left with 11 hehehehehhe.

Crap i even made it baron so far. We wont withdraw, we will kill each and everyone of them until they surrender, and if the war lasts until the end of the age, so be it.

I can understand that in your kingdom you wanted to make it top 50. So losing time in a war , not being able to grow, goes against your goal.

This 2 undeads that kept attacking, if they kept atatcking, they have proven their worth .

Give them a chance , 2 players like that are hard to find, people that dont care about acres but only about the killing and pain inflicted to the enemy are hard to come by, i wish you good luck and hope that they dont leave your kd because they seem like really good , even if crazy

[SirVanir]

Just to clarify, there were multiple issues that lost my kd its war, one of which was complete lack of activity from 1/2 our attackers due to easter holidays; but the calamity caused by these 3 people in our kingdom, while perhaps not *directly* losing us the war, definitely was a huge contributing factor. The one person who had released everything he had, gave the other kd 800 free acres (1000 to 200), and these 2 people gave them ~750 as well, thats 1400 that we could not take back due to the lack of activity from the other attackers. Had this not occurred in the first place though, things might have swung differently, no way of knowing.