Chasity OVERPOWERED

[zoltix]

you cant mystic vortex yourself...

[Palem]

This isn't a solo game...

It takes twice as much activity and coordination to keep chastity up than it does to ask a team mate to clear it off for you.

[zoltix]

Of course its not a solo game. But to test if something is op or not, you have to compare it in a set environment.
If this isn't a solo game:
You can kidnap until your stealth go to zero, ask other province to MV and remove chastity.
But there can be 3 other provinces to counter the kidnap with fireball, rendering kidnap useless, and just chastity you more
There are too many variations to take into account when in a multiplayer environment.

Therefore, the best way to test if Chastity is Overpower is to set it in a 1v1 environment:
The enemy chastity you, your economy is 100% halt.
and there's no way to recover if you are A/T because even when kidnap gains you back the peasants. Your economy is still at a halt.

One more thing. Kidnaping, max gain is 1.85% FB max kill is 3%. Theres no way you can out kidnap a fireball

That's why I think chastity should to be changed from 0 birth rate to 'lowering birth rate', after all, women has as much needs as men.

[Palem]

Your economy isn't halted. The only thing chastity does is stop your birth rates.

And yes, if the other kd wants to keep chastity on you that badly, then they will. That doesn't make it over powered. It makes it a good spell that's tough to use. If a kd wants to break you, they will tear you down and break you. That doesn't make attacking over powered.

And no, a 1v1 environment is NOT the way to test if something is overpowered because 1v1 is not a scenario in this game. It's never 1v1. But hey, I'll play your game...

If it was 1v1, the other prov would most likely not be able to keep chastity on you 24/7 without nearly flawless activity. On top of that, FB requires runes. Kidnapping doesn't. You can keep kidnapping until the cows come home, but unless he's got a serious investment of land into towers, he can't keep FBs up.

Add onto that the fact that attacking gives you some pezzies and his whole chastity plan is crumbling to the ground, along with his prov which has a tower-heavy set up.

[bugulu]

along with his prov which has a tower-heavy set up.

Not necessary true, I found when I was sitting a faery that 10% Towers was more than enough with 130% Magic effectiveness.
I agree with the rest though.

Testing if someone is OP or UP in 1vs1 environment wouldn't yield good results. If you expect people to log in up to 8 times a day with maximum of 3 hour durations, then you should expect the same of your kingdom mates to log in that often to MV you.

[zoltix]

Its true, during war, if the other kd wants me dead there's not that much i can do alone to stop them.
I didn't have a high TPA to kidnap, and the only thing i could do was continue attacking, since i am undead.


I was left with about 1.5k peasants and making 4k gc every tick after all those spells.
With that and chastity on me, every tick means nothing. I still get some soldiers from drafts, some income from the remaining peasants, but my population is always at 1.5K no way for me to get out of it.

kidnap can be said to be a counter for FB, but I don't see a counter for chastity, MV maybe, i never tried.
With the lowest rune cost multiplier of all offensive spell, i think something about chastity should to be changed.

[Pestermenot]

Get soldiers aided in and release them into peasantry... Why does everyone forget this?

[wizwam]

I bet you are one of those that got chastitied badly in a war and had no way of recovering due to running a sub 2 modded TPA on this thievery friendly age.
The only people who wants Chastity nerfed are people who couldn't find a way of handling the 0 peasant growth.

Yup. That's me. So I vote nerf the thing.

[DjTeddySpin]

If you expect people to log in up to 8 times a day with maximum of 3 hour durations, then you should expect the same of your kingdom mates to log in that often to MV you.

This is why I won't bother replying you. A KD mate that logs in 8 times a day to do MV is a good Mage, but one that logs in once every 9-12hours to cast one damn spell and consider work done should not be good mage. Bottom line, the damn spell is overpowered. And you're pitting one super OP spell against one 'defensive' spell that has insane difficulty.

Why not implement a spell that makes you draft 0 soldiers for approximately 12hours? bungulu would be back here again defending about how you can MV and just steal horses to make up for the offensive loss. Perfect idea. Suggesting a weak solution to a major problem caused by one overpowered spell, and instead of nerfing the spell he recommends you spend all your stealth and hurting your tpa kidnapping to counter one spell that's valued at 3% mana with low runes consumption and lasts 9-12hours. Good luck trying.

Yup. That's me. So I vote nerf the thing.

Exactly my point, he talks empty. Until he gives a good and effective solution as to how to 'cope with 0 peasant growth'.

[bugulu]

This is why I won't bother replying you. A KD mate that logs in 8 times a day to do MV is a good Mage, but one that logs in once every 9-12hours to cast one damn spell and consider work done should not be good mage.

Where have you got your information that a mage only needs to log in 9-12 hours a day just to refresh chastity? Is that your definition of a mage? As far as I know, mages got plenty of repsonsibilities aswell.
* Update SoTs
* Making use of their stealth
* Blanket Meteor Showers / Pitfalls on targets
* And most important, Attack!

You seem to be pulling out information from your own ass to validate your "theory" about Chastity being overpowered. KIndly point me to a single player that actually think his job is done and only logging on twice a day and considers himself being good.

Bottom line, the damn spell is overpowered. And you're pitting one super OP spell against one 'defensive' spell that has insane difficulty.

I won't argue with you that MV got insane difficulty and that it should be tuned down, but MV is one counter out of many to Chastity no matter how hard it is. Whether Mystic Vortex should be nerfed or not shouldn't be in this discussion though since it's a separate issue.

Why not implement a spell that makes you draft 0 soldiers for approximately 12hours? bungulu would be back here again defending about how you can MV and just steal horses to make up for the offensive loss. Perfect idea.

You didn't think this true, did you? Horrible counter attack, your suggestion doesn't even make sense to this discussion. Troll warning!

Suggesting a weak solution to a major problem caused by one overpowered spell, and instead of nerfing the spell he recommends you spend all your stealth and hurting your tpa kidnapping to counter one spell that's valued at 3% mana with low runes consumption and lasts 9-12hours. Good luck trying.

Chastity doesn't last 9-12 hours for non mystics. And seriously, hurting your TPA to counter one spell so you get peasants back? Crap, I sacrificed my attacking force just to get my land back because I got overpopped, it hurts aswell. OH look, I had to send 5 DPA worth of points to contribute to my part of slaying the dragon.
Bottom line is that you need to sacrifice something to get things done.

Exactly my point, he talks empty. Until he gives a good and effective solution as to how to 'cope with 0 peasant growth'.

Let us see here:

* Palem suggested kidnapping
* I suggested kidnapping
* Pestermenot suggest aiding soldiers to release into peasants.

You got your "good and effective solutions there". But I think you mean "good and effective solutions without having to sacrifice something" then my answer is there is none.
I don't mind increased rune cost to this spell to make it less spammy as I pointed out earlier, but I am not too keen with reducing its duration/effect.

[DjTeddySpin]

Where have you got your information that a mage only needs to log in 9-12 hours a day just to refresh chastity? Is that your definition of a mage? As far as I know, mages got plenty of repsonsibilities aswell.
* Update SoTs
* Making use of their stealth
* Blanket Meteor Showers / Pitfalls on targets
* And most important, Attack!

You seem to be pulling out information from your own ass to validate your "theory" about Chastity being overpowered. KIndly point me to a single player that actually think his job is done and only logging on twice a day and considers himself being good.

Wow, I totally don't know if you're serious dude. From making a comparison of Mage capabilities to comparing a mage province as a whole. And you calling me a troll? Go learn comprehension seriously.

I won't argue with you that MV got insane difficulty and that it should be tuned down, but MV is one counter out of many to Chastity no matter how hard it is. Whether Mystic Vortex should be nerfed or not shouldn't be in this discussion though since it's a separate issue.

Sure, then don't go talking crap about how you should totally get MV to cure chastity.

You didn't think this true, did you? Horrible counter attack, your suggestion doesn't even make sense to this discussion. Troll warning!

Do you know the purpose of an analogy? Oh right, when you lose just call troll. Simple.

Chastity doesn't last 9-12 hours for non mystics. And seriously, hurting your TPA to counter one spell so you get peasants back? Crap, I sacrificed my attacking force just to get my land back because I got overpopped, it hurts aswell. OH look, I had to send 5 DPA worth of points to contribute to my part of slaying the dragon.
Bottom line is that you need to sacrifice something to get things done.

Yes, your statement is as good as saying we should all run 30DPA because non-attackers don't have that much MO anyways, forget about the attackers. Of course you have to sacrifice something to get things done, the issue here is IS IT EFFICIENT TO WASTE ALL STEALTH OVER A SPELL THATS SO LOW RUNE CONSUMPTION AND HIGH SUCCESS CHANCE?

You got your "good and effective solutions there".

No, its not an effective solution obviously. They never said it was effective, they only said its one of the solution. having a weak solution does not mean Chastity isn't OP.



But on a more friendly tone, as a utopian player to another, you've gotta be kidding me to say Chastity is not OP.

[Bishop]

Knock it off.

[bugulu]

But on a more friendly tone, as a utopian player to another, you've gotta be kidding me to say Chastity is not OP.

I don't agree with you but you're entitled to your opinion. I don't think there's a chance either of us will change our opinions so I'll just back off now.
Thanks for the discussion though, forums needs bit more discussions to keep it "lively".

Bishop, this is offtopic but is there any announcement regarding if the age will last to age 14 or is it still "maybe"?

[Bishop]

unless otherwise updated you should take it as being 14 weeks

[E_Boko]

Get soldiers aided in and release them into peasantry... Why does everyone forget this?

because in war ppl are rebuilding and sending troops to the dragons. aiding ppl is not always the best option ESPECIALLY when they are gonna release soldiers into peasantry? thats such a waste imo wartime. attack, or kidnap are far better options then wasting money to draft, then making them peasantry so they can just die again with another round of FB