How to deep chain ?

[gojete]

Well you know im noobness unlimited, but id like to know how to deep chain, how to use the war button properly how to get it and not give it and so on, is there a guide anywhere



I red that its important with the button because, lets say we are getting massacred, and we have the button, so if we keep our armies in, and we wait for their main targets to be deep chained to hit us,
is that the moment when i should click war? and then order the deep chain?
Is a deep chain something that is only done in few hours, im thinking 10 attacks is a deep chain? do this attack have to be made in a certain ammount of hours, or is it enough if its done before the target to be chained gets his armies back?

We will test this things anyway by ourselves but it be nice with some guidelines,
We have been hit a lot and we dont have the button, i really dont understand this meter thing...
Ima go try to find a page that says how many points a massacre or a fireball move the meter etc.

Our enemies are usually around 1000 to 1400 acres thats why i thought 10 trad marches would be enough or?

Well bye

[Bishop]

http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.php?title=Chaining
http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...=Hostile_Meter

This should get you started

[citadela01]

one kd needs to be at least hostile, other needs to be at least uf. If those conditions are met kd with less hostility poins acumulated gets the button.
tm - 1 point
mass/learn - 0.5 point
points decay on daily base at the rate of 1/6 total or 1 point minimum, ops dont cause points.

deep chain means you get some1 down to a point where his lack of land and nw associated with it renders him pretty much useless for the remaining of the war. Think in line of droping 3k province into sub 300 acres range.
How to get there isnt exactly the easiest thing in the world, especially for kd with few players. Most important part is target selection really, many things can help/hurt your eforts but most important factors to consider are army return time and land coming in at the time you start your chain. Ideally you want your guys attackin in nw order to efectivly do max damage and you want him pushed into heavy overpop asap to give desertion time to kick in and wipe his deff.
While heavy hitters at the top of the KD are important to chain efectivly the reall issue is finishing it off cause of diminishing returns and number of attacks it takes. This is the reason some warrin KD's run provs slecialized for finnishin chains off, ie orc clerics are awesome at this. They stay small deliberatly and run very high opa/gs's and low deff, few hours into heavy desertion when prov is pushed into their nw range and their def wiped with attacks/desertion they step in and multihit for massive gains tryin to finish it off. 2-3 orcs at 1k acres can do same amount of damage as 10 provs at 400k nw vs oponent with say 500 acres and 200k nw.
Anyway that up there is just some rough pointers as there really is loads of factors that can affect outcome, try it and see.

[gojete]

Thanks a lot im reading the guide and with the new provinces we got that are small and might not catch up we might probably pull off a setup for finishers that stay small with tons of offense!

I dont know if we coudl ever really pull off a real deep chain, if provinces of 3,000 acres go down to 300, then our enemies of 1400 should go down to 100, crap in a ghetto seems really hard, we will try anyway lets see what happns.

Thanks again

[Ethan]

What is a good rule of thumb for how far you have to drop someone to trigger over-pop? (And that is the main mechanic a deep chain works by, right?) Is it necessary to keep them over-pop when their army is back, or is it enough to force all their defense to leave and let them keep all the offense? I've been on the receiving end of a drop from about 1500 to 500 in two waves (stopped at 700 first time around, but land came in), and while we resigned the war before min time (if they could do that to me, they could do it to anyone in our kingdom, and we were nowhere near good enough to respond to that)... I thought I could have kept fighting for about 24 more hours before everything fell apart and I was rendered totally ineffective. Is it normal to still have a bit of fight left after that deep a chain, or was I lucky, or did I just manage to mitigate perfectly or what? Would top war kingdoms have chained even deeper?

[Luc]

What is a good rule of thumb for how far you have to drop someone to trigger over-pop? (And that is the main mechanic a deep chain works by, right?) Is it necessary to keep them over-pop when their army is back, or is it enough to force all their defense to leave and let them keep all the offense? I've been on the receiving end of a drop from about 1500 to 500 in two waves (stopped at 700 first time around, but land came in), and while we resigned the war before min time (if they could do that to me, they could do it to anyone in our kingdom, and we were nowhere near good enough to respond to that)... I thought I could have kept fighting for about 24 more hours before everything fell apart and I was rendered totally ineffective. Is it normal to still have a bit of fight left after that deep a chain, or was I lucky, or did I just manage to mitigate perfectly or what? Would top war kingdoms have chained even deeper?

First order of business is to kill off def so you can easily do multi taps. So you need to do a bunch of fast attacks to overpop enough for a sizable amount of the def to leave. Second order of business is dropping the target so deep that they will be forced to release as much as possible of their offense as well before they can hit. How far you can drop depends on a lot of things. If you've only got larger provs around at the end, you don't want to waste their armies on doing 10 acre attacks with anything but spare armies, and that's usually what stops the chaining in practice.

A more serious kd would've dropped you below 300 acres. Even though it's almost impossible to actually disable someone completely, if you drop them enough, their nw will be so low that they won't really be helping their kd since they're too busy keeping their offense.

Provs with a lot of land incoming are poor targets for deep chaining, unless you can at least ambush some of that away, or you have enough small provs to chain really deep. The best targets are the bouncers or any other variety with no land incoming (including those who use war spoils).

[gojete]

Why do people bounce so much at higher lvls. form the guide it says that a bounce that failed by little moves the meter almost by 1 point,
Are the bounces to kill defense with pitfalls and meter moving?
or is there something else.
Why bounce instead of doing succesful attacks?

Damn this is more advanced war theory

[Palem]

A mix of two things...
1. Good players make mistakes too.
2. Better tactics. Soldier packets sent to a projected target so the next hit will bounce. Switching monarchy around for the 10% bonus to make people bounce.

[gojete]

ohhhhhhhhhhhh

Let me see if i get this right from the guide,

To declare war, if one kd is hostile and the other is unfriendly then the unfriendly can declare war and has the button.
A hostile is after 7.5 points

What i dont get is if TM ops move the meter, from what i get from the guide of kingdom bishop and kingdom realest, is that ops dont move the meter at all?

[Palar]

Yes, only attacks move the meter.

[gojete]

this relations thing takes the game to a whole new level

[kbone]

At each day change, both hostile meters decay by one sixth (16.6667%) or 1 point, whichever is greater.

The meter doesnt decay nearly this fast, does it?

EDIT: ohhh, that must be a rl day, lol ive been playing too much utopia

[DjTeddySpin]

The meter doesnt decay nearly this fast, does it?

EDIT: ohhh, that must be a rl day, lol ive been playing too much utopia

HAHA.

Well to add to the discussion, lately I have been debating myself over the use of deep chaining. It is a common sight to see provinces getting chained to 300 acres, but if they were to keep their offense and release only dspecs, they can have a high NW for their size and would be quad tapping or triple tapping, it makes one wonder if deep chaining is still a good option. To sum it up, if you can't disable a province, is it worth the deep chaining?

I noticed that if you're around 2.5k++ range, with the smallest provinces around 2k, deep chaining might still be a viable option as those chained provinces won't have sufficient MO to break since simply releasing dspec might not be enough to satisfy the pop limit if you have been chained down from 2k++ acres. And at 300 acres, it may be impossible to break anyone from 2k acres if you are forced to release some offense. But in mid-tiered, if your KD range is around 1k-2k, those chained provinces would still hit back. Opinions?

[Pestermenot]

In a deep chain, you land 8-12 trads (minimum, for the size you mentioned) in one tick, next tick, they are overpopped and rioting.

Give them a few hours (4-8) to try and stabilize then start in with the FBs, Chastity, MS, NM, AW, NS. Do all these things within one tick as well.

Start the attack again with your smaller provs, get in as many hits as possible until you start getting 10-20 acres per hit, then switch to massacres and propaganda and AW again, then let the mages LL them to oblivion.

This only takes 6-8 provs working together, depending on race/pers and how well they run their strat (more never hurts).

[Ethan]

FB on the chain target? That is against my understanding of the theory (though I've never executed one, hence why I'm asking about it). I thought the point was that you couldn't release peasants, and they only drop 7% per tick... so you wanted to stuff their province full of pes and make them release troops instead. In which case FB is the *worst* thing you could do. Is that actually the theory to a deep chain, or am I thinking about it wrong?

If that is right... NM is wonderful since it locks troops up in training. How are troops in training impacted by desertion anyway?