Superior A/M?

[Backpack]

I am looking to build a very nice attacker/mage next age and was wondering what some nice suggestions were. I heard UD/mystic makes a good a/m as well as an elf/mystic being a good a/m. some other ones i was thinking about are avian/mystic and dwarf/mystic.

let me know what you guys are running this age that works well or what you think you will run next age that you think will work well. right now i'm running a human/merchant a/t (i didnt choose the race/pers but it isnt working out too badly right now) but i want to try running a high offense attacker with mage capabilities next age.

let me know please and thank you!

[Palem]

Wait for the changes to be finalized lol

But if things stay roughly the same as predicted, Elf looks like an obvious choice.

[Backpack]

Wait for the changes to be finalized lol

haha, Palem, how did I know you were going to say that?

And say everything DOES stay the same (which at this point doesnt look promising because everyone is going nuts over elves in the opinions on changes thread), would elf/mystic be the choice a/m or would elf/warrior or something like that be a better choice, you think?

[Palem]

If you think you can manage the rune requirements (heavy science/tower investment) then I would say swaying off Mystic would be safe (Cleric if you're looking for a "real" answer).

But the safe bet would just be sticking to mystic.

[Backpack]

I'm always looking for real answers.. :-P

Why Cleric and not Warrior or Tact even?

[Palem]

You've got QF, so no need for Tactician.

Warrior's big bonus (+OME) is only available in war. Limited bonuses are ftl =[. The only other reason to pick warrior to utilize Elf's Pitfalls and try to win a casualty war with your opponent, but that's better done with Cleric.

[Backpack]

i agree tact is just an overplay on the elf qf spell.

but warrior doesnt look too bad to be, considering i only need the offense when i'm in war (since i run a warring kingdom).

However, I think the clerics ability to negate the hospitals need in the build strat will leave a bunch of open space for more towers and things. I'm excited for the new age!

Anyone else have any input on this subject? (Not that I don't respect and trust your opinion, Palem)

[twitched]

if you're looking for a respectable attacker and mage, elf is fine. if you want heavier attacker, avian has no problems casting spells with 3 wpa. if you're more of a mage with enough attackers to be a chain finisher, faery isn't bad if you get good pop bonus.

[Ordray]

I was working through an Elf setup for next age earlier today, and I was able to get some pretty decent numbers on it. 4 rWPA, 50 DPA, and 80ish OPA. Still doing some tweaking to the build, so I'll likely be getting better numbers out of it after I juggle around a few % points into forts/tgs. Problem is trying to fit too many buildings into my build though :( Also, the above calc is for 10% BE science, 5% pop science, 200% pay rate, MP cast, 15% homes, and 62% (or was it 63? I can't remember at the moment and am too lazy to open it back up.)

So, you can get some pretty decent numbers from an elf and you'll have stronger spells and longer durations than any other race can manage. Elf/Mystic go well together since you'll need the space saved on guilds and the extra runes to cast with that +2 mana/tick during war.

[Kuchi]

Dunno where you heard undeads are good A/M. It's doable but not worth it. Elves would definitely be the best choice especially if the proposed changes for next age sticks.

[kilava]

Runes and elfs

Assuming you are a 1500 acre elf that mostly will cast FB during wars, how many % towers do you need?

Runes cost = ROUNDDOWN(( 0.68 * 1500(acre) + 680 ) * 1,5(FB multiplier)) = 2550 runes per FB

FB cost 2% mana and elf regain 5% mana each hour during wars so they can cast 2,5 FB per hour: 2550 * 2,5 = 6375

Assuming we have 85% BE and 80% channeling science.

Towers needed (non mystic) = 6375 / (12 * 0,85 * 1,8) = 347

Towers needed (Mystic) = 6375 / (12 * 0,85 * 1,8 * 2) = 173

Elfs will cast other spells like CS, IE, MP, QF and pitfalls during wars so they cant use all their mana for FB but if they use most of their mana for this purpose will they need to run around 10% towers if they are mystic and 20% if they are non mystic?

[Bishop]

at that size, probably - rune costs scale down as you gain acres though. The smaller you are the more towers you need.

[kilava]

Elf/Sage 1500 Lord

Trying to create a good A/M, but I have never played elf so what do you think about this build/setup?

Goal: A/M with fair offense, the ability to spam FB during wars and high enough mod wpa to ensure good success rate. (Faeries will take care of MS)

Assume this science which isn't that hard to get after a good science pump. (10% libraries)

** Effects Summary (Known Science Only) **
23.8% Income (200,000 books)
17% Building Effectiveness (200,000 books)
15.7% Population Limits (400,000 books)
96.3% Food Production (100,000 books)
11.9% Gains in Combat (50,000 books)
64.6% Thievery Effectiveness (80,000 books)
144.5% Magic Effectiveness & Rune Production (400,000 books)

Mod population = 44255,25 or 29,5 PPA

Farms = 44255,25 * 0,25 / (70 * 0,85 * 1,963) = 94,7

Towers = Rounddown((0,68 * 1500 + 680) * 1,5)) * 2,5 / 12 * 0,85 * 2,445 = 255,6

Personality: The Sage
Race: Elf
Building Efficiency: 85%
Kingdom Stance: Normal

1. Farms: 95 (6.3%)
2. Banks: 174 (11.6%)
3. Training Grounds: 240 (16%)
4. Hospitals: 180 (12%)
5. Guilds: 180 (12%)
6. Towers: 256 (17.1%)
7. Watch Towers: 225 (15%)
8. Libraries: 150 (10%)

Total Land: 1,500 Acres (100% built)

** Effects Summary (Available Buildings Only) **
1. Produce 5,653 bushels (7,066 with FL), 23 books
2. 3,698gc, +10.9% income, 43 books
3. +17.14% offense bonus, 60 books
4. 17.95% cure plague, -26.93% military losses, 45 books
5. Training about 3.06 wizards per hour, 45 books
6. Produce 2,611 runes per hour, 64 books
7. Thieves: 21.68% catch, -32.51% damage, 56 books
8. +18% science effects (not affected by BE), 37 books

11381 or 7,587 peasants per acre to get 85% BE

6,7 DSPA to get 40 raw DPA and 45 mod DPA (MP and 200% wages)

1,18 raw TPA = 2 Mod TPA

5 raw WPA = 12,6 mod WPA

Elites per acre = 29,5 - 7,587 - 6,7 - 1,18 - 5 = 9

9 EPA = 88 Mod OPA

Summary

88 Mod OPA (4 gen)
45 Mod DPA (elites out)
2 Mod TPA + 15% WT + CS
12,6 Mod WPA with enough towers to cast FB with all your mana.

I think the values are good but before elf/sage get enough science they are fairly bad.

[Bishop]

you can get that sci pretty fast though

[Fenleone]

Towers might be good enough for your size though I might try and live with 15% myself and just try and use thievery to pick up any other runes I might need.

I would likely try for at least a 2 raw TPA (3 mod) for rune stealing on low TPA targets and intel gathering.

12% Guilds is just too low for a Sage this might be fine for a Mystic but for a Sage it's totaly insuficient. I would be trying to run at bare minimum 15% (more likely aiming for 20%). %Guilds affect self spell success rate and spell durations for FB specificly this isn't much of an issue but you will be casting self spells and things like PF and Greed as well so don't underestimate the need for a decently high %Guilds for an A/M.

5 rawWPA isn't easy to get as a Sage, off the top of my head I would guess most of your out of war time will have to be spent at about 30% Guilds to even have a ghost of a chance of hitting that much rawWPA (12% guilds constant will leave you at mabee 3 rawWPA). Massacres or AW need to be factored in and once you do getting a 4 rawWPA is tough enough for a Sage.

On the attacker side of things you haven't factored in GS and your hospitals are at only 12%. The hospitals part isn't horrible but if you can spare the space getting it up to 15% would make you much more survivable. The lack of GS in war shifted to schools out of war is where I see your main weakness comming in (your too fragile), if I was facing off against that setup I would see you as easily chained down and vulnerable to learn attacks (learn in the provoke stage).

Banks you could probably live with dropping down to 10% simply due to your lower military upkeep costs with Elf


Myself I might be looking something closer to this:

5% Farm
10% Bank
15% TG
15% Hosp
20% Guild
15% Tower
10% Lib
10% Flex (Guard Stations or Watchtowers)

I know the flex only has 10% GS or WT (not both) but I ran out of building space b4 I could add in everything I wanted (always a major issue with A/M builds).