America Sucks

[freemehul]

I think that as long as wilders gets to demonize islam and demand more money for the "hard working dutch labourer" he'll be happy. He's not too hard to see through. He's definitely not harmless, but if some african immigrants get killed because of his rethorics it is not expected to have a big influence on the economy.

Tea-Party on the other hand seem more erratic and no one knows what they'll do next. Would they really have let the U.S. slide into insolvency if obama hadn't conceded ? It seems unlikely but sadly not completely unimaginable anymore.

That's really what "political stability" only means in this context. The ability of global players to deduce how a goverment is likely to act so they can manage their investments accordingly.

yeah unfortunately I'd have to agree with you there. But it is a shortsighted perception. In the long term social circumstances are far more fiscally straining on an economy than fiscal politics. In an ironic way it kind of shows you how unimportant and insignificant most politicians are.

It's very paradoxical if you think about it.

[Jo3MoMMa]

Isn't America's debt more owed to the American people than other countries? I mean, it's a government debt, is it not?

China could cash in, and it would weaken the American economy, but I doubt it would be as heavy as people think.

actually he's right

only like 25% of U.S. debt is to actual countries
a majority of debt is to individuals and institutions of the U.S.and of course retirement funds

just go to the U.S. treasury website

[freemehul]

actually he's right

only like 25% of U.S. debt is to actual countries
a majority of debt is to individuals and institutions of the U.S.and of course retirement funds

just go to the U.S. treasury website

FALSE

That's the debt according to their definition. There are more kinds of debt than that and those are held mostly by foreign banks. Their definition of debt only involves central banks, there are other kinds of banks then central banks and the U.S. treasury does owe debt to these banks.


Just go to the U.S. treasury website and look it up ;)

Also part of the debt in terms of bonds is intragovermental debt. Basically that's say for instance the state of Illinois lending money to the federal government, only the Michigan government borrowed money in turn from lets say a bank like ING. Since it's indirect, U.S. treasury doesn't count it as foreign when in reality it is. Even if it were direct lending, then the U.S. treasury still wouldn't count it as government bonds, because by their own definition ING wouldn't be considered a central bank.

So this is the U.S. treasury bureaucrats ordered by their superior to paint a rosy picture of U.S. debt.

And I don't need to remind you that the U.S. may borrow from non-central banks and has in reality actually done so.

[freemehul]

And in case you were wondering who ordered the U.S. treasury bureaucrats to do that. Well I'm not certain, but I'm willing to bet it's A. M. Buchanan, who was treasurer under the Reagan administration.

It wouldn't have been the first time Reagan played with definitions. ;) He did it before with ballistic missiles (telling the public Soviets Union had twice as much ballistic missiles as the U.S. when in fact it was the opposite) and the U.S. public fell right into that too.

[freemehul]

And if you still don't buy it Jo3MoMMa, how come by their definition U.S. only owes 8 trillion, when in reality it is like closer to 14 trillion? Why the 6 trillion difference, I tell you why, it's because of the difference in definition.

But don't feel bad Jo3MoMMa, for being so gullable, S&P made the same kind of mistake like you did and they were off by at least 2 trillion ;)

[Jo3MoMMa]

And if you still don't buy it Jo3MoMMa, how come by their definition U.S. only owes 8 trillion, when in reality it is like closer to 14 trillion? Why the 6 trillion difference, I tell you why, it's because of the difference in definition.

But don't feel bad Jo3MoMMa, for being so gullable, S&P made the same kind of mistake like you did and they were off by at least 2 trillion ;)

How does that make me gullable?
Saying that more of the debt is owed to the to the federal reserve rather then other countries has worse implications then saying it the other way. Read up on the federal reserve and the value of these so called dollars and how they and their value work then get back to me. other coun tries holding our debt is not near as bad as us holding our debt.

[freemehul]

How does that make me gullable?
Saying that more of the debt is owed to the to the federal reserve rather then other countries has worse implications then saying it the other way. Read up on the federal reserve and the value of these so called dollars and how they and their value work then get back to me. other coun tries holding our debt is not near as bad as us holding our debt.

history has proven you so very wrong on numerous occasions

If you depend on foreign banks and you mistreat those, then what you essentially become is a bankrupt nation. It happened to French when they mistreated Swiss bankers. They lost Queen Anne's war and subsequently spiraled into a revolution where numerous members of the nobility got their heads chopped off. Or take the Russian revolutionaries for example when they nationalised the Russian railroad. Cut off of funding and in the midst of a civil war, with only one poor harvest, 6 million starved to death. And I could name many more such examples. Seriously you don't want to be in two wars and not know how much money you owe.

Read up on the federal reserve and the value of these so called dollars and how they and their value work then get back to me.

Have you ever heard of a thing called hyperinflation? No... go ask any German and see how much they like it.

Geesh not only are you gullable, but you're also ignorant.

You could also look at this in a legal way. In a democracy the executive branch is obliged to accurately and truthfully inform the legislative branch. Fail there and you get a constitutional crisis. Essentially what it says here, that if congress did their job right, they should have impeeched Reagan. ;)

[Jo3MoMMa]

Now I'm gullable and ignorant nice

heres some facts

China feels the need to manage its currency against the dollar. It's that it holds a massive pile of American government securities already, and if it takes a step that leads to a big fall in the dollar or a big decline in Treasury prices, then it will cost itself a fortune. And it's that it has few good options for places to park the reserves that it continues to accumulate.

Also America is the issuer of the world's most dominant reserve currency and the world's most plentiful safe asset. Foreigners hold huge stocks of dollars and Treasuries and other dollar-denominated securities, and they therefore have an incentive to support the dollar and Treasury prices.

As the growing debt is accredited to the Fed all that goes out the window. Think about it, you need to borrow $5 you can borrow it from me, a friend , your parents, or you can borrow it from yourself, wait how would that work? think about it.

[freemehul]

You stated no facts!

[freemehul]

China feels the need to manage its currency against the dollar. It's that it holds a massive pile of American government securities already, and if it takes a step that leads to a big fall in the dollar or a big decline in Treasury prices, then it will cost itself a fortune. And it's that it has few good options for places to park the reserves that it continues to accumulate.
.

China devalues its currency because of trade, specifically export prices, not debt.

Also America is the issuer of the world's most dominant reserve currency and the world's most plentiful safe asset. Foreigners hold huge stocks of dollars and Treasuries and other dollar-denominated securities, and they therefore have an incentive to support the dollar and Treasury prices.
.

This is false. They don't have an incentive to support it. They can sell it and substitute it for another foreign currency or their own currency. Now clearly since they're not using their own currency because they don't trust it, they'll use a foreign currency. You're implying that has to be the dollar, which is false. The dollar isn't falling because of the FED's actions, it's falling because foreigners trust the Euro more than they trust the dollar. If you belief the opposite you're as dumb and delusional as Ron Paul. Furthermore foreigners could return to their own currency, if they regain trust in those. In light of the recent Arab spring that may actually happen now.

As the growing debt is accredited to the Fed all that goes out the window. Think about it, you need to borrow $5 you can borrow it from me, a friend , your parents, or you can borrow it from yourself, wait how would that work? think about it.

You can't borrow from yourself silly! Also ...Pension funds is the people's money it's not of the federal government.

You can issue new currency which is what you would imply here, if you actually thought logically here for a second (which apparently you can't), but that causes inflation. Issue a lot of money and you get hyperinflation.

Let's face it... not only are you gullable and ignorant, but you're also an idiot if you think inflation is a good thing for your economy. But wait that's not all. You posted the same stupid notion before in at least two posts, which means essentially you want to do the same thing over and over, expecting to see different results. ;) You need therapy Jo3MoMMa

[Jo3MoMMa]

assuming is bad bruh

nowhere do i state or imply that this is what i want or i think we are better off
in fact i was stating what i said originally makes us worse off then what you were stating,(read a few posts back) the fact that your mentioning inflation by the fed issuing more money is the point ive been making all along. Thanks for reitorating it for me

[Jo3MoMMa]

Saying that more of the debt is owed to the to the federal reserve rather then other countries has worse implications then saying it the other way. Read up on the federal reserve and the value of these so called dollars and how they and their value work then get back to me. other coun tries holding our debt is not near as bad as us holding our debt.

well ill be damned is this me saying we'll be worse off
hmm must of missed this post

[Jo3MoMMa]

China devalues its currency because of trade, specifically export prices, not debt.

this is partially true ill give you credit, but if they do anything to raise their value or they call our bluff and try to collect on the debt the value of the dollar will fall, which will cost them billions

This is false. They don't have an incentive to support it. They can sell it and substitute it for another foreign currency or their own currency. Now clearly since they're not using their own currency because they don't trust it, they'll use a foreign currency. You're implying that has to be the dollar, which is false. The dollar isn't falling because of the FED's actions, it's falling because foreigners trust the Euro more than they trust the dollar. If you belief the opposite you're as dumb and delusional as Ron Paul. Furthermore foreigners could return to their own currency, if they regain trust in those. In light of the recent Arab spring that may actually happen now.

Please at least check yourself before you say something is false, from 99-03 the euro balloned as a world reserve currency, but it hasnt seen the huge gains since then. As of now the euro is around 25% wheres as the dollar holds strong at 60%. This is due to the GDP of the united states being the largest in the world. yes the combined efforts of all of europe does give it the slight edge, but the fact remains that they are a combined effort.

You can't borrow from yourself silly!

Exactly my point

Now none of these post contain a biased view saying americas this or that, its just an accurate rendition of the problem

[freemehul]

First of all you didn't make an accurate rendition and second of all you just retracted part of your prior statements and I'm not wrong about the Euro comparison. 99to 03 is irrelevant. Euro was effectively introduced in 2002 silly and up to 2005 dollar went poor against the euro. Btw even Alan Greenspan has admitted that the Euro will be no1 reserve currency, in fact in a lot of developing nations it already is.

Lets face it, you might aswell want to admit defeat now Jo3MoMMa ;)

[Jo3MoMMa]

I'm not talking about the future I'm talking about now. Show me evidence of the euro being the dominant reserve currency. Show me just 1piece