Wrong DHaran, it's neither. It's within the rules, same as the invite system.Originally Posted by DHaran
Who are you to say it's a privilege? You really can't understand why people take issue with your manner?Please get off that high horse before you fall and hurt yourself!
I can pretty much confirm this, I'm one of those pairs, my brother has stopped for this age since we're going on vacation overseas for 3 months between two ages( gone for end-half of this age, start-half of next age) but I'm still playing for half an age I don't know about the other pairs but I'm sure most have either stayed or left together as it seems.
The rest of this is in my viewpoint and are just my opinion; the whitelist was good, and both of us will still play. Yea sure this new system will restrict things but tbh we're playing for the game and kd mates (which explains the lack of angst towards this system); not to be with eachother, if I want to bond with him it's mmofps. If it's really bad then I'll just find another kd and make new friends, we used to be in different kds beforehand anyway so we don't really mind. I won't really comment much since my viewpoint is literally 'meh'; I really don't care as long as I can play, I can deal with all this extra stuff but only for those above reasons. I can see why others would be pissed since they can no longer play as they like to (more interactively with their whitelistee) and I can tell you there has been many times where I have thought, if only my bro would do this and that for me; but we're quite complacent, in fact I ridicule him when he does something wrong or messes up and tell him when he gets home "You've got chained man" during wars as a prank.. or as news and constantly bugging him to update pimp (lolz)- brotherly love eh.
But now the system just removes that thought since it isn't possible anymore. I will admit that intel gathering will be annoying update intel on lots of guys and usually just tell my bro the details instead of having him waste stealth (same as me posting intel on msn for others in retrospect) and vice versa, now I will have to only update intel on guys I want to hit or who are out of his range. And aiding might intefere, usually though its few k runes to cast NB or some bushels of food to stave starving but I always try getting it myself before asking kdmates let alone my brother, I do have a workaround though and that is bug those on msn since half my logins are when my brother isn't around.
However I'll also say that about 50% of my logins are from home (during school terms) while almost 100% of his are and he averages only 1-1.5 logins a day. So yea flame me if you must but I can say that we're one example of people who won't really be affected while playing in same kd, there's a couple also in the kd who play; one has gone on vac mode while they went overseas but the other logged in from his laptop, the guy has always asking/bugging me on msn anyway so I usually grab him intel and stuff too lol (even before his gf joined) and yes I'll be laughing at him when he and his gf messes up due to this system and he rages that he can't attack.
Tis a dog world out there, eat or be eaten, drink or be drunk.
Enjoy every minute. There's plenty of time to be dead.
Hmmm only thing I have to say, wasn't utopia created to bring people from around the world together into a fair and even playing ground....spouses shouldn't even be in the same kd. I do agree with the point that some countries isps are setup differently which will hinder their playing which sucks....but come on you see your spouse enough daily.....join two seperate kds have fun meeting new people... same with all the my sibling or daughter etc play to....join different kds and interact with others like the game was created for and what it still is today. Imo I always thought allowing spouses siblings etc from same household into same kd was a tad retarded to begin with.....with that said now flame on.....
Eh sorry for quick posting....phone wont let me edit for some reason... as for the invite system don't even comment about how well u made it so we can invite friends etc....as I have a feeling it was done for you to invite friends, who don't live with you......
So, these new changes have been made to make moderators lives easier, at the cost of a small amount of loyal non-cheating players.
Basically you are using a drag net, and if a few dolphins get caught up, bad luck for them.
I almost feel like I have a Star of David on my head.
DHaran, I'm more than a little confused. I too work for a bank, and as far as I know, online banking does exactly this. Generally, for online banking, you're required to provide a username, password, occasionally a PIN or a secret question, and nothing else. Through this, you can transfer funds to other customers, send out funds through bill pay, and even apply for credit cards and other lines and loans. Banks are able to prevent widespread fraud using that system and while there are of course people who do not properly use the system (due to couples sharing accounts, which is of course what we're trying to avoid) it seems plenty effective for them. Through behavior modeling, a much better system could be implemented that would intelligently block cheaters. Hell, with some regex magic, you could easily automatically organize, sort, and cleanse out the list of provinces that have shared IPs.Banks would never allow a system that would let one person access another person's account without verifying their identity and confirming they had access to that account on every single transaction.
Here's a solution that would be pretty simple to implement. It's not perfect, but it's a start.
An account is logged in to from more than one IP in a short period of time (as in an unrealistic period of time, 5-15 minutes perhaps), or multiple accounts are activated from one IP in a short time (without being on the whitelist), then that account (or accounts) are flagged and monitored. This behavior continues, and blammo, they're put on a list in which the account cannot interact with other flagged provinces in any way. This would be devastating to farms and multis. Furthermore, this would allow the whitelist to exist for legitimate players.
As far as authentication, it's pretty freaking simple. While you cannot, and should not be expected to ID each and every person as being a legitimate player, you can have people make it obvious that they are two different people who are looking to play. It's all very simple really, people tend to have long and relatively common cyber footprints. For example, my handle "warfrogs." I've used it for quite a while. For example, (reddit.com/user/warfrogs) there is my reddit profile (can't post a link due to account age) and (reddit.com/r/Utopiagame/comments/n3bb4/proof_of_self/) there is my post establishing my identity.
Most, not all, people have long standing cyber presences that can be tied to ONE person and can be authenticated via a message like mine. Why wouldn't this be sufficient to get put onto a whitelist? Most cheaters would not be willing to create a profile, a bunch of fake friends, comments, etc. in order to multi, they'd probably just VPN. True, there would still be abuse, but it would cut down on your legwork quite a lot, allow the whitelist to continue as it truly is needed in the game, and would cut down on cheaters.
I'd love to get a real response on this, I've yet to see a good one which is more than a little disheartening. I feel like I might as well be using the White House petition site to ask about marijuana legalization. The only answer is no answer at all.
Last edited by warfrogs; 07-12-2011 at 02:07. Reason: grammar, spelling, capitalization, all that fun stuff
id assume your comment is refering to the nazis/jews....that's a bit over exagerating. Maybe their main goal is to simply cut back the time it takes to sort through the whitelist.....who knows maybe the devs help do the whitelist to other then the mods....maybe the goal is to reduce or make it more time consuming to cheat...and maybe they are trying to prevent cheating so that people see utopia as a anticheaters game... imo wouldn't pay for anything in a game if I knew the company running it didn't care about people abusing the system....
This is more akin with shark nets; you put it up to prevent shark attacks but other animals are going to get caught up unfortunately.
The point is not proving identification, even if they did how are you going to prove that you will not under any circumstances log in for another player while under the whitelist to obtain those no restrictions, that they cannot prove even if you write an essay on it. We all like to believe it's easy to trust people but that itself opens up abuse from those few rotten apples.
Last edited by Palar; 07-12-2011 at 02:09.
Tis a dog world out there, eat or be eaten, drink or be drunk.
Enjoy every minute. There's plenty of time to be dead.
How is it over-exaggerating, I am a minority that shares an IP address with a work mate that got me into the game.
We work nowhere near each other, but are being vilified and grouped with "cheaters", and the moderators/developers do not care that this is happening.
Next thing to happen, is that anyone that hasn't purchased credits will be kicked out of the game.
If you had actually read the entirety of my post, you would have caught this bit.The point is not proving identification, even if they did how are you going to prove that you will not under any circumstances log in for another player while under the whitelist to obtain those no restriction, that they cannot prove even if you write an essay on it.
Through behavioral modeling (which if they aren't doing, they really should start) they can see when the players usually log in and from where. They can also see if there are multiple login attempts from numerous IPs on the same account in an extraordinarily short period of time, or activity occurring on one account from multiple IPs. That's how SMART filtering is done. You keep talking about a net, this is a damn wall. You want an exception? Screw you, I'm a wall.An account is logged in to from more than one IP in a short period of time (as in an unrealistic period of time, 5-15 minutes perhaps), or multiple accounts are activated from one IP in a short time (without being on the whitelist), then that account (or accounts) are flagged and monitored. This behavior continues, and blammo, they're put on a list in which the account cannot interact with other flagged provinces in any way. This would be devastating to farms and multis. Furthermore, this would allow the whitelist to exist for legitimate players.
Unfortunately for the wall, cheaters will find a way around it. Instead of trying to block, why not try to target? It's much easier, far more effective, and will actually SCALE. If they want the game to get back to 10k+ players, I promise you, more evolved cheaters will come around and the wall they're proposing will be laughable to exploit.
for one your not being killed off.... and anyhow how is the new system preventing you from doing anything...I mean if unless your one of the unfortunate isp problems, you shouldn't have a issue.... also warfrogs transactions to other accts are monitored and tracked/verified and in certain circumstances are denied....
Last edited by Militaryman; 07-12-2011 at 02:20. Reason: misread warfrogs statement
My workmate and I both log on through our work PCs and work iphones, which all share the same ip address.
So even though we are situated 20 kilometers apart, we are seen as cheaters, and cannot interact with the same provs.
We are about to war, so I will find out how bad it is for us shortly, but I expect that one of us will have to leave the KD.
I won't go to another KD, I will just quit.
Ok, I admit the Star of David thing was a bit harsh and I apologise for this. This whole situation is just extremely frustrating, and the way some on here have been treated by the moderators is just not right.
Last edited by Tokala; 07-12-2011 at 02:25.
Lol not tryin to be a *** but shouldn't you be working ya know at work? And neither of you own a home computer with internet or a personal phone?
PS, I'm in Toka's kingdom. We potentially may lose one of our two of our best players (JK TOKA AND MOOSEY BOTH SUCK) because they log in from work and while they are nowhere near one another, their company uses the same outgoing IPs. When T/M's can't team up, they're effectively taken out of the game.
As far as banking, you don't seem to be able to understand what I'm saying. One: You're 100% wrong about how banks track IPs and relate them to logins. If I have a customer at my desk and they log into their online for the first time with me there, and they're from a state 500 miles away, they will be asked to further verify their identity. They make a point of it to restrict unusual or unknown IPs from accessing an account. In other words, they practice smart filtering by saying "Is this normal for this customer?" and then approaching it in a sensible manner. I promise you, if you were to try to log in to your online banking from a place totally foreign to you without a pretty obvious linear relationship to that destination through IP logs, you would be asked to further verify yourself.
Two: Point A has nothing to do with anything at all as the devs of the game make their money by pageviews and adclicks, thus more players playing means more revenue for them. In regards to your point regarding accessing accounts not tied to you being a federal crime, that's neither here nor there. As I said, if they were to abuse the system, they'd get either the banhammer or added to a blacklist. I'm not proposing amnesty for multis, but instead a system that filters the multis, but also allows for players who share IPs. Regarding point B, again, if you had actually read my post, you would have seen this bit.
The emphasis is mine.Banks are able to prevent widespread fraud using that system and while there are of course people who do not properly use the system (due to couples sharing accounts, which is of course what we're trying to avoid) it seems plenty effective for them.
Through behavioral modeling, this could effectively be eliminated or somewhat curbed. If you want to limit access to the accounts, look at what's normal, and go from there. It's THAT SIMPLE. You seem to fail at reading my posts so I'm going to say it again.
USE BEHAVIORAL MODELING TO CREATE A FILTER THROUGH REGULAR EXPRESSIONS THAT IS EASILY MAINTAINED AND REQUIRES VERY LITTLE UPKEEP.
Was that easier for you to read?
What I do at work has nothing to do with this situation.
I have no need for a personal phone, and yes I also log in from home, but for me to enjoy the game I want to be able to log in whenever I want.
To only log in from home is hamstringing my playing style.
How would you like to be told you can only log in to Uto from x time to y time???
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