Thoughts from a Vet

[Landro]

Yes, a system where an easily influenced jury (O.J. trial anybody?) can hand out death penalties is much, much better than a system where highly trained professionals decide whether you're guilty (The ICC can't hand out death penalties)

[Militaryman]

Lol I love how some of yall think that the US is the main reason countries fight with themselves etc... Have any of you even been to a third world country? Experienced the culture of say afghanistan, somalia, panama, egypt etc? Their cultures are totally different then the american or UK cultures... The whole neighbors getting broken into we better call the police is non existent. It is a eye for a eye. If you even talk bad about a neighbor or another clan, you can and most likely will be killed.. The whole war on terrorism is just that a war on terror. Terror isnt defined or set in one country or another. It springs up everywhere... As for afghanistan and iraq, yeah I think we should have went there. Ive spent 2 years in each both a couple years apart. My last deployment (2010-sep2011)was to Gardez/paktia prov of afghanistan which was where I was deployed before. And they still welcomed us back, and some of the officials even remembered my unit patch. It was amazing to see how they had electricity, plumbing, glass windows, open markets, women police officials, etc compared to what it was on my previous deployment. Morally what we are doing I believe is good. As for the cas rate etc, most times military personnel both american and nato do not try to kill civilians or commit fratracide. And when they do it is usually because the militias like the taliban or the seperate al quieda sects atk from populated areas instead of head on battles with troops.
As for staying out of other countries... thats pretty much a no go in todays day and age, doing that gives countries like North Korea free reign on developing whatever they want to kill people. Or for example letting dictators like saddam gas his own people. And fyi the whole we are in iraq and afghanistan for oil is a mute arguing point.. Afghanistan has no resources currently developed to exploit, iraqs infastracture was so tore up and run down their oil production has and still sucks, and we are and have been in africa for awhile.. Check out africom and another major reason the US anyhow hasnt actually put thousands boots on ground in say somalia etc is because nato is there, and the local populance has within the last two years actually fought back against the insurgencys in their countries with help in training etc from nato.

[stoffi]

Check out africom and another major reason the US anyhow hasnt actually put thousands boots on ground in say somalia etc is because nato is there, and the local populance has within the last two years actually fought back against the insurgencys in their countries with help in training etc from nato.

The reason why the US (and others) won't put boots on the ground in Somalia is because of the Rwanda failure. We got burnt. NATO is not present with boots on the ground in Somalia btw, nor any other African country. I don't see how that would help either.

Iraq was about oil, Afghanistan was about revenge.

FYI, Saddam Hussein gassed his own people because the US got the Kurds to revolt in the first Gulf War and then left them to fend for themselves. Saddam took revenge on the Kurds, a furious revenge.

Most soldiers on the ground are like you and me, they are normal people who mean to do good. The vast majority don't mean to kill civilians, though military command sometimes don't care whether or not there are civilians present or not. Also, it helps if soldiers don't come from the worst slums because ignorance is extremely dangerous.

[Bishop]

LOLnato. A defensive pact whos motto should be "offense is the best form of defense" and who get involved in countries that are not signed up to it.

[stoffi]

LOLnato. A defensive pact whos motto should be "offense is the best form of defense" and who get involved in countries that are not signed up to it.

Afghanistan was a threat to us all though, and still can be. The Americans armed the Mujahedin, then made the Mujahedin hate the US + the west, and then Afghanistan became a safe haven for all the haters that the Americans created. Not NATO's fault, but we must deal with the consequences.

[Bishop]

Nato are a thinly veiled joke of a regime. What were they doing in Libya?

[Nuriho]

If you turn that around, why would US find US guilty then? Is that better than, how is that justices if there is never in your best interest to get punished.

US polices their own. They would find themselves guilty because for some weird reason they actually care what the rest of the world thinks of them. They know the world is out to get them, but will not tolerate misbehavior.

Yes, a system where an easily influenced jury (O.J. trial anybody?) can hand out death penalties is much, much better than a system where highly trained professionals decide whether you're guilty (The ICC can't hand out death penalties)

A system where an easily influenced jury is not responsible for a trial of US soldiers. The US military court is. Soldiers are even able to get out of state trials because of that act. That doesn't mean the punishment is less. The military doesn't tolerate crime, and having a criminal in the military reflects badly on the military, so it's best for them to be judged appropriately for their crimes.

Iraq was about oil, Afghanistan was about revenge.

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...948787,00.html
wat? where is my oil and monies?

[Korp]

They would find themselves guilty because for some weird reason they actually care what the rest of the world thinks of them.

Since when has US cared about anything but their own personal goals?

[stoffi]

Nato are a thinly veiled joke of a regime. What were they doing in Libya?

Saving the people of Libya who were asking us for help, fighting tyranny and oppression! And a great success it was!

[Bishop]

Saving the people of Libya who were asking us for help, fighting tyranny and oppression! And a great success it was!

Great to be a part of Nato isn't it? Libya were so clever to join :/

[Nuriho]

Since when has US cared about anything but their own personal goals?

Since 1775.
If the US is a single person who only has a single personal goal and isn't conflicted in any way whatsoever, then I would be wrong, but if the US is a single person, that person has a severe case of schizophrenia with goals that conflict with one another (Stop Communism in Viet Nam; help the people of South Viet Nam; **** 'em all, our troops > any other countries citizens). Iraq would go on the things that US cared about that's not their own personal goals. The evidence is rather clear on that point. Invaded Iraq for personal goals? Maybe, if you want to declare that 300 million people decided that they didn't like a certain scumbag. Didn't collect on that personal goal unless the US' personal goal was to simply take away authority of Sadam Hussein.

[Chromemagnonman]

Sorry for your needless sacrifice. If you believe wars today have anything to do with "Freedom" besides the freedom to monopolize the global economy in some form. Dont you find it odd that the very people crying about other making nuclear weapons are the very people with all the Nuclear weapons? this is not freedom but terrorism. and really how is you family really safe when you need to peer at your neighbors because we are told that "they" are everywhere. what is failed to mention is that "they" is also "them".

So the next time you consider OUR families sacrifice serving our Corporations for better profit margins remember that you also made that sacrifice so childish remarks and rebuttles along with opinions no matter how wrong you believe them to be can be made. take a close look at Nazi Germany and how Hilter was able to take control of military and them compare them to the last 15 years of US actions. My point is that we are all mislead to some degree and if we bindly stand up for those in charge without questioning then we have already lost any freedoms that were ever won.

[octobrev]

Guys you really need to send me an invite if you're going to take an irc battle to the forums. +50 points to Chromemagnonman.

[Ruthanasia]

I am forced to place that blame squarely on their heads. Why? When was the last time we had compulsory military service? Vietnam. What happened to most of the 'draft dodgers'? Blanket amnesty. People in this country who sign up to kill are doing so of their own volition. What are they even killing and dying for? Government imperialism. Hell, at least the suicide bombers are killing themselves and others for personal belief, not profit. Both are sick and wrong, but at least one comes with some kind of true self, and not a paycheck.

Basically, they have soldiers. We have mercenaries. Tough call on which is worse.

Excellent post.

[Ruthanasia]

Awlaki was deamed a terrorist by the USA. So we killed him. Enough said.
Gallowmere your tag says you are from Virgina. I am assuming as vocal as you are in here that you chose to voice our opinion in public as well an actually VOTE. If that assumption is correct - you are welcome, I was one of those 'killers' that helped insure you continue to have the right to vote, an bad mouth the country AND the service men/women that protect you.And just so you know - YOU elected those people that sent me overseas to do the things THIS nation felt needed to be done. It was YOUR vote that put me in harms way. It was YOUR tax dollars that paid THIS KILLERS wages. It was YOUR vote that got my brother an my buddies killed. Its ok though, I don't hold a grudge ... matter of fact if asked to do it again I would. You aren't free? If you weren't free you would have already been dragged out of your house, shot for sedition in your front yard an left for the neighbor hood dogs to feast on ... oh, wait ..... that's just what I witnessed in the part of the world that YOU paid me to be in, sent to by the people YOU elected to lead this country. No right to be there? You seriously going tell me that if you are the only one in your neighborhood with a gun an some gang member comes around an starts raping your neighbor that you aren't going to stop it? Oh, wait ... you are gonna call the police aren't you?
What a damn joke that people can sit on their high horse an make morale judgements about people and things they know NOTHING about. Get out from behind your computer an go see for yourself whats going on in the real world, then maybe we can have a realistic conversation about morals. Oh, wait ... I suppose you aren't suppose to be there either though are you?

If you pulled a trigger, dropped a bomb, flicked a switch or did anything else to cause the death of another human being, it is NO BODY'S fault or responsibility but your own. You CHOSE a career path that meant you were expected to kill others. Don't go crying now because people realise that it takes a special kind of "person" to want to do that job.

You paid the Ferryman, take your ride.