#2 province grande mucca deleted

[Proteus]

Ryan, player of the #2 land province grande mucca, back to back Battlefields prov crown winner, and mastermind was deleted for apparently no reason.

Logs from #presidential

(17:16:52) 02(&Ryan) Alas, Knight TGP the Rogue, your once-mighty province of grande mucca () has collapsed, and lies in ruins.
(17:16:52) 02(&Ryan) You may found a new province here, and start anew.
(17:16:52) 02(&Ryan) lol
(17:16:56) 02(&Ryan) wtf?

Apparently Ryan was deleted for being in a war with a kingdom that had a province to which Ryan had an individual province nap with.

Cow naps with other cows, nap between cow-kingdom, and naps between cows and individual provinces are common and have been executed in many deals. I personally have made several deals of such in the past ages in various kingdoms.

Are individual prov naps and immunity for certain provinces in war unethical? Has morality gone to sleep? Has the long arm of the law grown to be too long? #Discuss

[Scott250]

naps has been part of the game since it's creation

[Darkz Azn]

i was told he was deleted cuz it was a farm war .... sound like a mistake made by the dev imo... since trollfag was in one and didnt get deleeted =) ... odd

[Proteus]

More evidence fresh from #presidential

(00:27:42) 02(&Ryan) but regardless it wasn't a fw
(00:28:16) 02(&Ryan) have gone through pages of my ingame messages
(00:28:43) 02(&Ryan) to find where i offered to war that kd with the terms i wouldnt hit their monarch
(00:28:51) 02(&Ryan) (i cant even break their monarch)
(00:29:12) 02(&Ryan) it's comparable to me sending out war requests and saying i wont send or slay dragons (when the other kd is never in dragon range)

(00:31:38) 11(~Proteus) howd u give/get button
(00:31:50) 02(&Ryan) my kd waved his
(00:31:57) 02(&Ryan) his kd retalled and declared
(00:32:54) 02(&Ryan) funny thing is i wasnt even max gaining
(00:32:58) 02(&Ryan) i was hitting in the chains
(00:33:17) 02(&Ryan) until we ended up with 3 fail chains and started max gaining after 2 waves
(00:34:19) 02(&Ryan) but yea i got an accounting exam tomorrow
(00:34:28) 11(~Proteus) wow
(00:34:29) 02(&Ryan) dont got time to deal with this right now
(00:34:31) 11(~Proteus) you got deleted for that
(00:34:37) 02(&Ryan) ya

Apparently Ryan was deleted because an ingame message was found in his utopia inbox where he agreed to not hit the big 8k orc in the kingdom that his kd had waved in exchange for a war for Ryan's kd.

(00:35:56) 02(&Ryan) all i said was i wouldnt hit him in the war terms
(00:36:00) 02(&Ryan) (i cant break him anyways)

How is this any different between a cow nap between 2 top kds where cows don't attack eachother and instead hit the core to make up their pool loss. Top kingdoms have not been deleted for making certain province naps, immunity for tms, no dragon clauses, etc. How is this any different?

[fariz]

sad

:/

i wish ryan is still there in top 5. i miss him already.

[bluebear]

Poor Ryan :(

[Lemans]

Careful with your words proteus! I see that you have CF agreement with a few cow provinces, piss of Bishop enough, you and the rest of your cow-gang is going to end up like ryan...

[Proteus]

Not trying to piss off bishop, I have a lot of respect for him and hold him in high regard. We have always gotten along. The issue here is FW is no actioned but this was a province nap not a FW. The province grande mucca had no use for fakewar, he was napped to all cows. FW is being actioned this age and we're in a new era of the game. However, I find it unclear on what we can/can't do. IMO if what Ryan was doing is questionable perhaps a warning would have sufficed rather a deletion which ruined 11weeks of his work. Do you realize how much time goes into making a successful cow. The pre-age strategy/planning, securing cease-fires, timely exploration, and making the right moves to stay on top. I think its a tad bit harsh.

[Syntico]

i was told he was deleted cuz it was a farm war .... sound like a mistake made by the dev imo... since trollfag was in one and didnt get deleeted =) ... odd

It's not our fault they didn't want to withdraw, but it was actually a legit war where all provinces were free to hit and be hit. Odd example to use, odd.

[Stolenempire]

Funny RYan got deleted for saying to that monarch he wont grab him in war.... Made me laught since thats not cheating, just lyin if he decided to hit him anyways..... Sounds fishy.....

[Allanon KT]

A prov-based NAP does NOT constitute a fake war.
A cow NAP does NOT constitute a fake war.
An agreement made before min-time between kingdoms to ceasefire mid-war after fighting and then have one of them withdraw at min-time does NOT constitute a fake-war.

These are all diplomatic agreements, not fake wars.

This sort of thing has gone on for years. Sorry, but this is unacceptable interference in in-game diplomatic relations by the game mods based on poor information provided by biased third-parties

For those commenting here and in IRC on the fwar rule not being in the rules yet (yes, I'm looking at you here dorje mate ;) ), please refer to the section where it mentions misusing game rules and quirks, as this has long been considered where such a ruling should come under:

Spirit of the Rules

Players attempting to manipulate rules and quirks of the game in ways obviously not intended may be subject to deletion. Because of their nature, these types of circumstances are considered on a case-by-case basis. Users should avoid actions they believe are against the spirit and intent of the game.

[Realest]

dont be mad, devs are never wrong.

[protector]

I'm curious though; why has the guy from the kingdom he's warring been deleted as well then? Seems like 2 deletions rather than 1.

(00:35:56) 02(&Ryan) all i said was i wouldnt hit him in the war terms
(00:36:00) 02(&Ryan) (i cant break him anyways)

This could be the reason I guess.

[I_am_Spartacus]

I am Ryan.... (grande mucca), I use to be jdorje on the forums but it appears my username has been changed.

I'm curious though; why has the guy from the kingdom he's warring been deleted as well then? Seems like 2 deletions rather than 1.

(00:35:56) 02(&Ryan) all i said was i wouldnt hit him in the war terms
(00:36:00) 02(&Ryan) (i cant break him anyways)

This could be the reason I guess.

Because he agreed to the mutually beneficial war terms of myself and him not hitting each other (however it's obvious he would never be able to break me). I couldn't break him either with the offense I had anyways, and with the war on short notice it was more important I cleaned pool / aided my kd versus training to hit him. Regardless though, I wasn't out to max gain all war. I chained with my KD the first 2-3 waves and actively lead the war.

I bring a big burden to a ghetto being 65% of the networth, it's not easy finding wars, especially fair ones where my KD doesn't get slaughtered. So yea I can't go and msg a kd at 50% (any kd our size is a middle class SK who wouldn't even bother warring us, not that we want that anyways) of our kd NW saying..

"let's war sissies, i'm gunna quad all the self esteem your pitiful province has left every 8 hours, and then i'm going to start messaging your KD mates saying how bad of a monarch you are and that they need to elect a new one. Which will happen right around minimum time so you can't withdraw. Then you will hear a CHOO CHOO. Oh what's that? That's the quad train coming back around for more. At this stage your KD will be at an utter state of dysfunctional rockpile-ism and roughly around 60 hours in, the first few will start defecting or deleting. Anyways, sorry I got carried away there.. how about that war?"

Yea... that msg converts at 0%. Instead I tell them my KD has X inactives and we're just looking for a fun war to test ourselves out. Then I specifically note that if my province wasn't in the KD, we would be basically the same size. From there I just sweeten the deal with any war terms they want or terms I feel will make it a reasonable and/or attractive war for them. In this case that 6.5k monarch would never have agreed to war had I not agreed to not hit him. Also made sure to include that he wouldn't hit me... cause this makes him feel important / special and all that goodness. Like I said above, he wouldn't have been apart of the initial war plan anyways had this diplomacy not taken place. This is no worse then when I message potential war targets half our size saying I won't send or slay any dragons. Yea it sounds like an awesome deal but most don't realize we aren't even in dragon range. Creating irrelevant war terms to get REAL wars for my KD, why not? We lost our first 2 wars and were currently in the process of our third which was looking like our first win together.

This game has been around for like over 10 years now? With a dwindling player base and fighting the same people age after age, everybody is running provinces "near" top efficiency. What it comes down to now is largely based off of diplomacy for those of us who are successful.


So what am I guilty of?

I'm a bottled air salesman.

[Godly]

I'm really tired of shady top playing. Individual naps such as these are simply put an agreement for mutual farm war on the noobs in the kingdom. This is free acre generation with zero risk.

I support this deletion 100%. I would also support deletions for GBP pumping 100%.

Either way, I'm pretty sure this wasn't the only infraction because I'm confident to say that Ryan doesn't have enough talent to make #2 in a lone kingdom. I wouldn't be shocked at all to hear that other people were logging into his account.

That aside, I think it's safe to say that the majority of shady play comes from Absalom or Absalom affiliates. You guys come up with clever ways to skirt around the rules to benefit yourselves and in return make the game overly complicated for people who just play by common sense rules.

Another note: Sanctuary of Absalom will be the single reason why Fortified relation will be reworked next round. Fortified is a great tool for turtling under defended provinces post war and/or rejecting a wave from a more powerful kingdom. I seriously doubt that it was intended as a tool to block with where you just notice a kingdom and sit in fortified to waste everyone's time.