Rage v BIO

[flogger]

When two kingdoms are alone or fighting in a vacuum, and start at an equal size, if one kingdom takes 10k acres from the other, the kingdom ends up 20k acres larger than the other at the end.

When #1 and #2 fight, the size of the gap between the two is all that ends up mattering, so I have no problem with the 17k figure. If rage started out 5k acres ahead and ended 12k acres behind, 17k seems like the only important metric.

They didn't gain 17k acres from you, but they gained 17k acres in all that matters when #1 and #2 fight, which is the landcrown race.

[Persain]

I think its cute how a disputed outcome as this can lead people to say Rage is bad etc. So I guess when you get a WW but avians withdraw min time with few acres from your actual provinces and pool gains (which is due to a built in race bonus) the kingdoms reputation is trashed all of the sudden.

So I guess all of the previous crowns, achievements, etc of this kingdom are now worthless because someone was able to WD min time +gains? You people seriously suffer from perception biases. That is the only thing that can explain such behavior.

Personally i dont care about crown, been there done that, i find it boring, not fun, and requiring less skill than warring (which is y for me i'd probably view simians as currently the best kd in utopia though bio is up there and rage is meh...haven't seen rage actually do any waring for waring sake).

Having alot of crowns shows u know how to do it effectively but that doesn't mean bio or any other well organized kd cant do it, it just takes a few ages to figure out. Its not like rage crowned the first age they tried to crown. With that said isnt the point of crowning to have the most acres. In that case Rage lost, they lost acres. i will say though if u look at the paper Proteus posted the valleys are around
-6100
-5000
-4100
-4200
-3500
the trend was that rage was slowly catching up in acres. And as Proteus pointed out the avains were slowly falling apart. Add that to the fact that rage had two cows and obviously given a 6-7-8 day war they would have pulled ahead and won the acre war. Simply said in war bank>no bank and orc>avain due to war losses for any LONG war. But again who cares about ww to crown u have to get ahead in acres, clearly BIO won that and for any crowning kd ww<<<<acres. Proteus by saying he wouldnt wd basically was hedging against bio hopeing to goad bio into a long war so he could look good about loosing acres in a short war....sory that didnt work.

If you really believe a kingdom who has no crowns and WDs +acres is much better than Rage you are free to think that but please get evidence. I hardly think 1 war in which you wd +gains outweighs AGES of achievement.

Personally i would say yes, however i have no "proof". So i would just point out that as of now it apears to be that both kds are going for kd land/nw crowns. Rage fought BIO and BIO got ahead in acres so i would argue as of now BIO>Rage. However, it is a long age and anything can happen. While i wouldn't put it past ABS to have kds wave bio so Rage can win this age we'll see what happens and will show which kd is better at CROWNING (and having friends at the top is part of that).

[brickwolfman]

3. Why do we have so many crowns and you have none (4 last age, is still more than you have)? If we dont know how to war wouldn't we have 0 crowns since we'd always farm out every age..

you mentioned winning 4 crowns last age. What crowns were they, KD land was one and province land was another, what are the other two?

[Persain]

you mentioned winning 4 crowns last age. What crowns were they, KD land was one and province land was another, what are the other two?

kd land/nw
prov land/nw

thats 4

[Eurycratides]

Personally i would say yes, however i have no "proof". So i would just point out that as of now it apears to be that both kds are going for kd land/nw crowns. Rage fought BIO and BIO got ahead in acres so i would argue as of now BIO>Rage. However, it is a long age and anything can happen. While i wouldn't put it past ABS to have kds wave bio so Rage can win this age we'll see what happens and will show which kd is better at CROWNING (and having friends at the top is part of that).

Yes this exactly. The top is like 5 kingdoms. Whoever can do the best politically usually wins, due to NUMBERS and numbers alone..

BIO isn't in alliances, so its going to be a really hard uphill battle :(

[arcticdemon]

lol you guys.

Proteus, kudos to winning crowns n whatever else before. thats the past. whats the pt of bringing that up here. what we talk about here is Bio Vs Rage
This wasnt a war about honour, or WW. It was a war about acres and wd'ing at the optimum time which in this case was what Bio did @ mintime. Had the situation been reversed and Rage was avians, whereas Bio were orc's, i doubt you would have done any different.
Before war, Bio < Rage in acres, at eow, Rage < Bio acre wise
They may have given the WW to you, but like i said, they did there wd at optimal time wth the acres lead. At the position the 2 kd's are at, that is the bottom line that count.

It was a war about whoring acres, not honour, and certainly not for a WW, given that it was a war between #1 and #2 in acres

[Drixx]

lol you guys.

Proteus, kudos to winning crowns n whatever else before. thats the past. whats the pt of bringing that up here. what we talk about here is Bio Vs Rage
This wasnt a war about honour, or WW. It was a war about acres and wd'ing at the optimum time which in this case was what Bio did @ mintime. Had the situation been reversed and Rage was avians, whereas Bio were orc's, i doubt you would have done any different.
Before war, Bio < Rage in acres, at eow, Rage < Bio acre wise
They may have given the WW to you, but like i said, they did there wd at optimal time wth the acres lead. At the position the 2 kd's are at, that is the bottom line that count.

It was a war about whoring acres, not honour, and certainly not for a WW, given that it was a war between #1 and #2 in acres

And your point? There's nothing bragworthy about avians withdrawing right before the enemy kd was about to get another wave. They simply used a racial advantage to get an extra wave in the war, and in total hostile + war they managed to reduce Rage's size by less than 4k acres. This isn't some smashing victory. They took advantage of a matchup and given the circumstances seem to have possibly underachieved. Yet, everyone is acting like they had some amazing strat that nobody had ever thought of and now all of a sudden they are some amazing kd.

No, they used a basic and obvious advantage to hit and run in mintime and gained a few acres. This is bragworthy how? That's right ... it's not. Even baka said it wasn't.

[Meeni]

Our armies were home before theirs were when we decided to WD

[arcticdemon]

And your point? There's nothing bragworthy about avians withdrawing right before the enemy kd was about to get another wave. They simply used a racial advantage to get an extra wave in the war, and in total hostile + war they managed to reduce Rage's size by less than 4k acres. This isn't some smashing victory. They took advantage of a matchup and given the circumstances seem to have possibly underachieved. Yet, everyone is acting like they had some amazing strat that nobody had ever thought of and now all of a sudden they are some amazing kd.

No, they used a basic and obvious advantage to hit and run in mintime and gained a few acres. This is bragworthy how? That's right ... it's not. Even baka said it wasn't.

as Meeni said, army home b4. also dont even go into racial advantage. u forget orcs have +25% gains. and is it a new thing that kd's b4 they decide to wd from war for whatever reason, do a final wave n then wd 2hrs after ? u remind me of a kid whose prob playing his 2nd age of uto n think he's figured out everything in the game.

and regards to ur 4k acres pt, u sound like a noob there. there has been wars where kd A lost < 10% there size, whereas kd B gained alteast twice > that of which kd A lost. go play a couple years more of uto in a highly warring kd n learn

[KuhaN]

Utopianub,

Why didnt rage go avians then?

Either BiO has better leadership for choosing a better kd setup, or better players for utilizing the setup that they chose.

Either way, its not EoA yet, so we'll see what happens. Chill dude.

[Realest]

It's pretty clear that BIO won this "conflict" and I don't see how anyone has a case that can argue this.

Rage totally misplayed this match up and Proteus knows this too. Without going too indepth into strategies here, it's sufficient to say that Rage was outplayed in this matchup and underestimated BIO. Using the the "BIO won cuz of race speed" argument is invalid because this was already known before Rage declared. If you declare war knowing you WILL get lapped by 1 wave but you feel your gains advantage will nullify it, then clearly, this is your own fault when it fails.

[fuzzy|]

thank you mr obvious ;)

congrats BIO

[tak3shi]

Just some remarks...

Thanks to BIO for the war. I think it was dragonnite who said it but the post wasn't deleted to save face. I wanted to start my morning with a beer on an empty stomach and ended up having too many and made a silly post. I never "backed down" from anything I said nor am trying to save face. I never made a post about farming anyone and we knew as early as freeze time that Avians have the ability to exit war +acres if played correctly which BIO did. All I said was I'm not going to withdraw.

@Dragonnight your posts about money, power, prestige, whatever remind me of when I was 13 and wanted to act cool. Came off looking completely stupid, I guess you are young still and will learn one day. I don't know who you are and never heard of you. You havent even ever fought Rage so please leave your silly comments to yourself. If you want to fight the so called big kingdoms, get in range and fight them.

@magik - Sorry about that, I did not really get what you meant by "nice try." Came off like I was trying to pull something off and failed, since the only thing I posted was papers I thought you meant I was trying to mislead people with gains. Please accept my apology.

@Baka - the only reason I don't like bio is because of your attitude. You've been acting like a spoiled crybaby ever since I farmed your cow. Just relax and let it go. You got so mad that you decided to 2v1 us with Dreams..Seriously man. Look at the situation now, you Wd with some of our acres and some of our pool. You don't see me crying over it or threatening to 2v1 you and crap like that. I don't care about your comments regarding my personality and who leads Rage is none of your business. Had I actually been as bad/stupid/obnoxious as you portray me as--I wouldn't be in the position I am, I wouldn't be in the kingdom. You should read some psychology books to get over your perception bias. Kinda funny how you say Rage isn't a top kingdom anymore when you just withdraw from a war and after we pull in 4 crowns last age. Just let it go dude, play the game and have fun..quit obsessing over me and Rage.

I think it's bcos of your ego man, everytime you try to act superior and act all cocky, trolling everyone just because you think you're better. That's the reason you be getting all this hate man. Chill out a little.

[kbone]

so much for Rage having it in the bag after week 2...

[tak3shi]

it's pretty clear that bio won this "conflict" and i don't see how anyone has a case that can argue this.

Rage totally misplayed this match up and proteus knows this too. Without going too indepth into strategies here, it's sufficient to say that rage was outplayed in this matchup and underestimated bio. Using the the "bio won cuz of race speed" argument is invalid because this was already known before rage declared. If you declare war knowing you will get lapped by 1 wave but you feel your gains advantage will nullify it, then clearly, this is your own fault when it fails.

qft.