Age 54 Potential Changes Rev II

[Bishop]

Make a post in the bugs forum if you think warspoiled hits can be ambushed. This thread needs to keep on topic.

[UtopiaKarateKid]

War Spoil indeed can't be ambushed, this is particular clear especially for undead players since they had been using this spell for long until the next age. There is no need to continue the arguement Twyla, you must have mixed it and mistaken somewhere else.

[Bishop]

There is also no need to point that out. Leave it for another topic.

[Palem]

Can we keep talking about how boned Faery is?

[Darksel]

Please weaken orc , faery and perhaps a bit undead.

Orc and undead have a 14 point army, 2 points better than the 2nd best armies and orc has no disadvantage when played as heavy attacker. (Sure, you can't do T/M stuff but you don't have to either) orcs pure military is just so so strong that they are impossible to get around if you plan on any warring.
Undead have some of the same issues, but aren't quite as strong because their science disadvantage matters a bit.

Faery just can't be touched by anyone their own size. Don't think that's quite fair so their tpa/wpa bonuses should be lowered, would make sense if they could be hurt by the pure mage and pure thief races, or they should get a 7 point elite perhaps.

Or strengthen the rest of the races some, so we have some options to choose between.

Edit: Also, avian is just a weak dwarf atm. I don't see why anyone ever should pick avian when dwarf has QF.

[Bishop]

Orcs and undead are meant to have the best armies though.

[Palem]

Faery just can't be touched by anyone their own size. Don't think that's quite fair so their tpa/wpa bonuses should be lowered, would make sense if they could be hurt by the pure mage and pure thief races, or they should get a 7 point elite perhaps.

Elves can cast on Faery. Halfling can thieve faery. Orc/Undead can break Faery.


Can't get touched?

[UtopiaKarateKid]

I am ok with all the races the Faeries or even the Avians and Humans which is two of the most debative races here. I just have a suggestion about the Elf NM though, hopefully the development team could consider about it.

[Natsu]

Please weaken orc , faery and perhaps a bit undead.

Orc and undead have a 14 point army, 2 points better than the 2nd best armies and orc has no disadvantage when played as heavy attacker. (Sure, you can't do T/M stuff but you don't have to either) orcs pure military is just so so strong that they are impossible to get around if you plan on any warring.
Undead have some of the same issues, but aren't quite as strong because their science disadvantage matters a bit.

Faery just can't be touched by anyone their own size. Don't think that's quite fair so their tpa/wpa bonuses should be lowered, would make sense if they could be hurt by the pure mage and pure thief races, or they should get a 7 point elite perhaps.

Or strengthen the rest of the races some, so we have some options to choose between.

Faery is fine how they are because Sage was nerfed aswell, need mystic to utilize Meteor Showers (some kingdoms will aim for this), and they already took a 20% WPA/TPA reduction which offsets their space allocation. Lets use an example at 1000 acres for this:

Homes (10%): 100 x 33 = 3300
Other (90%) 900 x 25 = 22500
Total Population: (22500+3300)*0.90 = 23200

Wizards: 3rWPA * 1000 = 3000 wizards
Thieves: 3rTPA * 1000 = 3000 Thieves
Def Specs: 2DPA * 1000 = 2000 def specs (for dragon)
Elites: 7610

3000+3000+2000+7610 = 15610 used already
23200-15610 = 7610 left for peasants and elites

2000x5= 10000 defense
7610*8= 60880 defense
Base defense: 70880
70880*1.16= 82200 defense with Forts

3*1.3= 3.9 TPA and WPA (without sciences)
3.9*1.28 (rough estimate for non-sage) = 4.992 TPA/WPA

Elves with same rWPA: 3*1.5= 5.76WPA With sciences and their racial bonus (Used 128% for Channeling Science bonus)
Halfling with same rTPA: 3*1.5= 5.76TPA With sciences and their racial bonus (Used 128% for Crime Science bonus)

How can this be OP vs Elves, Undead, Orcs, and Halflings? I would either shift +30% damage on spells and ops to +20% damage on spells and ops and +30% WPA and TPA to +40% WPA and TPA or shift the -10% Population to -5% Population. Right now the Faery race is a bit weak. Either the population penalty reduction or shifting 10% from damage to WPA/TPA not both.

Undead and Orc are supposed to be attacking powerhouses. They lack in the ops department and Age 54 should show it if things are setup correctly. These two races will be able to break Faery provinces regardless of the old or new setup for Faery race bonus. The only reason Faery provinces seem broken is they grow larger than other provinces to improve their population a bit compared to attackers that are 200 acres or more below them. This factor, sciences, and honor (big part of it) are reasons why Faery provinces seem so powerful. However, In the same breath it's the pure attackers not attacking them throughout the age that helps create this issue.

[crease]

Elves can cast on Faery. Halfling can thieve faery. Orc/Undead can break Faery.


Can't get touched?

i call bs on this, if an elf can get 1 MS on the faery in hostile with without 5+ fails beforehand then he certainly wont after hes gained acres and/or been massed. You have faery that is obliged to run mystic so is not going to be low wpa; not going to be massed in range in hostile, so not much damage can be done. On top of this, you get to cast MS all age and reel in the honour titles?

Thievery i agree with to some extent, since you pigeon-hole the faery into going mystic for ms, a halfer/rogue is going to have you for breakfast, with land coming in for a couple days

[Palem]

Total Population: (22500+3300)*0.90 = 23200

I would hate to correct someone fighting on my side, but you calced this wrong. The extra pop from homes aren't modded by race pop mods.

i call bs on this, if an elf can get 1 MS on the faery in hostile with without 5+ fails beforehand then he certainly wont after hes gained acres and/or been massed. You have faery that is obliged to run mystic so is not going to be low wpa; not going to be massed in range in hostile, so not much damage can be done. On top of this, you get to cast MS all age and reel in the honour titles?

lol...
Why would you cast MS on a faery?

Also, if you aren't knocking faeries out in hostiles, you are making a big mistake.

[nickey]

I would hate to disappoint here, but Faery can be beaten on all 3 aspects of the game. Elf can cast on magic on Faery. Halfling can thieve faery. Everyone can break faery.

Why CQ a faery?
"War will end automatically if your opponents networth drops to 50% of yours."
^That's why. If you're trying to drop the enemy nw, it's not reasonable to just let the enemy TMs sit around and hoard loads of land/nw while you sit there and exchange with their attackers. As far as raising their wpa/tpa by hitting for land, don't ever criticize someone else's logic after spewing that garbage at me. Go ahead and tell me which one's going to be more effective for your war...

2000 acres
5 tpa
5 wpa

or

200 acres
50 tpa
50 wpa


yea, 200 acre faery sucks and is a complete and total liability.

Then u dont know how to play a feary.
Sure they can OP the feary, once on the top feary from my kd enemy elves tried LS, they filled his paper before one 80K runes burn, that could have been all kd attackers MS covered, then my m8s feary done one or two RoT and got even more runes than before.

CQing feary is dream, in reality in war u gain acres, nw, honor but milirary power drops. My wise king said to me, if u come out of war with same off as u came in u probably won the war, so if in the begining of the war only couple attackers have enough off to CQ feary, after few days that number will drop and noone will be chained, stomps cant be considered.

But ok, u are right, they are vulnerable on all sides, just look at honor rankings, so few fearies, must have been people dont like honor anymore.

[Palem]

*facepalm*

Yep, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Thanks for ruining my age.

[dusk]

Bishop

Fix MV make it only buff enemy spells when cast on kd mate. It's a double penalty not only does you kd spend mana and runes to get rid of enemy spells but it kills your spells as well.
Give rouge an operation to get rid of riots on friendlies.
Fix ambush, right now you can ambush other people's hits and ambush an ambush ??????

[Natsu]

I would hate to correct someone fighting on my side, but you calced this wrong. The extra pop from homes aren't modded by race pop mods.

Thank you for the helpful advice :D. So the equation is ((total land*25)*0.90)+(# of Homes*8)? If so then my math was only off by 100 population.

Then u dont know how to play a feary.
Sure they can OP the feary, once on the top feary from my kd enemy elves tried LS, they filled his paper before one 80K runes burn, that could have been all kd attackers MS covered, then my m8s feary done one or two RoT and got even more runes than before.

CQing feary is dream, in reality in war u gain acres, nw, honor but milirary power drops. My wise king said to me, if u come out of war with same off as u came in u probably won the war, so if in the begining of the war only couple attackers have enough off to CQ feary, after few days that number will drop and noone will be chained, stomps cant be considered.

But ok, u are right, they are vulnerable on all sides, just look at honor rankings, so few fearies, must have been people dont like honor anymore.

Actually if you are running all Orcs or Undead you better have enough provinces with MO to atleast Conquest a Faery cause if not there's something wrong. Might want to look into the setup and don't tell me you can't because I did the math on this. Oh well guess I'll just have to prove things this coming age.