Simians Vs Sanc, HoH or Rage

[Palem]

u're best friends with sims now? I guessed them having 20k+ acres of your land makes you feel connected with them somehow.

No, when jdorje wants to call my play "dishonorable" and then does this, I'm compelled to say something.

It's amusing to try to soley blame Sanc as the bad guy for taking part in a situation Simians voluntarily put themselves in. I won't lean one way or the other in who is truly wrong or right, but I understand Sanc's point of view, and the point of view that Simians is double hostiled. But I know for a fact that it's Simians fault for being where they are.

I'm not solely blaming anyone of anything. This isn't the first time Simians have goofed this age with not considering consequences. They assume things will go as they planned and when they don't they have a hard time getting the train back on the tracks.

What I am doing is calling out jdorje for calling my kd dirty when they're pulling pretty much the EXACT same thing that we did to them and within mere hours, before their own leadership bothered to try and talk with me I've got abs leaders breathing down my neck. No, you can't call another kd dishonorable for doing something and then later come back, do it to someone else, and claim the moral high ground.

If i've been hit on by a kd who wants to war me and sends dragon at me, it would absolutely stupid for me to wave another kd. Come on Palem, have you ran a proper warring kd before? How can it be double hostile when it shows acts of aggresion and Simians put themselves in this dumbass situation. If they didn't want this, they shouldn't have noticed Sanctuary & Rage.

This is getting more and more ridiculous. Just let HoH & Simians fight it out.

Do you think HoH was just going to let Simians get away with their acres in a conflict with Sanc? HoH was most definitely going to respond. It's safe to say it was a double hostile.

Something to note here, Simians will hold a war button on Sanc once their war ends with HoH, so to call it a fake tag is not accurate.

To say that Simians and Sanc are currently hostile is not entirely accurate either. Tag something else. Sanctuary waiting on Simians. Sanc Vulturing Simians. Something else because as it stands currently, it's most definitely not Sanc vs Simians.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Wars aren't always mutually destructive towards growth once kingdoms get over 150k acres. If you have more offense, faster attack time, and better gains science, you can hit and run for quite alot of acres at that size, when generally topfeeding. Especially when wave 1 was fort vs non-fort.

Excellent point. Dicing is linear, while war gains scale with size. Logic would say that there is some size where successful warring can beat dicing in acres (and with enough gains even beat pumping and dicing.)

Ya all should get together and write a manifesto on mutually agreed upon hostility rules

My view here is that whenever we've tried to agree on hostility rules, al that usually happened was agreeing on how to abuse these rules and gameplay got lamer by these agreements. However you try and define it (be that by ingame hostile status or some other way) there will be ways to abuse that definition from all sides. One kingdom might use the definition to enable hitting into (or robbing into) clear fights that aren't quite hostile, while another kingdom might use the definition as a way to dodge threats that have already initiated a fight against them. Also, by setting a clear line you're essentially approving as "ok" what would otherwise be gray "lame" behavior as long as it falls just inside the line of acceptability and these borderline events become much more common.

That said, I do support finding ways of avoiding the double standards that seem to be quite common and it's possible that some creative people could come up with some "rules" that help with this while not overly encouraging the lame borderline behavior.

Everyone is picking on anri everywhere he may have made some mistakes noticing all three abs kds but he felt we needed desperate action to have a shot at crown. Even if sanc had not interferred and waited til war was over woith hoh and vultured us, assuming simians won war it was still a uphill battle. he took the chance to try make all three abs kds prepare and had hoped us picking hoh would have worked without interfernce. This was not the case, but anri did this with the full support of simians and we all totally support him. He may have made a mistake but he doesnt need to be ridiculed here.
What has happened has happened and in some ways new precendents and it heated up server. REmeber it is a WAR game and we here to fight it just more clearly defines stuff and the lines.
Those who supported Simians we would like to thank.

Well spoken. However, Anri does dish out the ridicule pretty frequently, so I'm sure he can take a bit now and then also. That said, he made a strategic gamble in a situation where he felt he needed to gamble for a shot at winning. Nothing wrong with taking a risk.

[I_am_Spartacus]

To sum up this thread.

Abs bias say: Actions were justified cause we're almighty Absalom.
Neutral folk say: Simians deserved it/earned it/were naive and stupid not to expect anything else.
Anti-abs bias/simian lovers say: Ehmahgerddd the furst durbble hotile evurr!

[DHaran]

I understand the move was a calculated gamble, I'm saying it wasn't calculated very well. Just stagger the notices and all 3 still have to train and you can pick your target first. It was just a bad move.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Elit: You bring the same old stuff that makes you look bad into every thread no matter what the topic is. I guess you are really troubled by your failings and hope that if you post lies enough that some people might start to believe them but instead you just end up exposing yourself as being irrational. Not only do you make yourself look bad, but you keep dragging BIO through the mud when they've hoped to distance themselves from this.

Both BIO and Dreams full waved Rage from their FW. Trying to claim that this is not a double only makes you look like a fool. The papers of both kingdoms full waving Rage are available. Again, there are numerous differences in that situation compared to the current one, however if you want to compare the situations, let's compare.


In that situation, Dreams noticed Rage and called out Rage for a fight in the public forums by posting a thread called "Dreams vs Rage" as Rage was recovering from their war with Pulse.
See exhibit A: http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...Dreams-vs-Rage

In this situation, Anri noticed Sanc, Rage, and HOH and seems to have called them all out for a fight including calling Sanc chickens for looking like they might not fight.
See this thread.

In the previous situation, Rage sent Dreams a dragon and hit them 3x and mass robbed them after the notice (given by Elit) expired. Dreams retaliated Rage 3x. No one else hit Dreams and no one had hit Rage before Rage did this.

In the current situation, Sanc sent Simians a dragon and hit them and told them a full wave was incoming. No one else had hit Simians or otherwise initiated anything against simians at this time.

In the previous situation, Elit decided he didn't want to fight Rage after publicly calling them out for a fight and noticing them since by fight time, Rage looked too strong. Therefore, when Rage sent a dragon at him and hit them and started mass opping them, he therefore arranged with another kingdom to make some hits on Rage and then FW that kingdom and both full wave Rage once they were protected from being declared if they gave up the button.

In the current situation, Anri decided he didn't want to fight Sanc after publicly calling them out for a fight and noticing them since by fight time, Sanc looked too strong. Therefore, when Sanc sent a dragon at him, hit him, started opping him, and informed him of an incoming full wave, Anri then tried to quickly wave another kingdom to get out of the fight with Sanc.


So Dreams and Simians share some commonalities in that they both noticed and publicly called out a kingdom, then when the kingdom they called out started fighting them and looked too strong, they quickly tried to get out of the fight. Elit brought in another kingdom to help him in his fight vs Rage while Simians initiated a fight with another kingdom out of their developing fight with Sanc to try and get out of it. Elit played dirty by bringing in a 2v1 to try and escape the fight he called out while Simians put themselves at risk and got themselves 2v1'd trying to escape the fight they called out.

[Elit]

Blame so hard Anri is not cool yes. Its very hard time for Simians atm and hope all kd will stay together and strong.

From both kd pages look like simians loss war bad atm, or at lest they are 60k smaller from HoH. Don't know how much land Sanctuary gained from Simians in hostile and how much hoh from this war.
Hope HoH can gain enough land to beat rage and finish n1. They "deserve" it more from rest 2 kds.

Right now Simians is OUT from war declaration range with Sanctuary, so keep this tag: Sanctuary vs Simians look pathetic and stupid.

[Proteus]

Blame so hard Anri is not cool yes. Its very hard time for Simians atm and hope all kd will stay together and strong.

From both kd pages look like simians loss war bad atm, or at lest they are 60k smaller from HoH. Don't know how much land Sanctuary gained from Simians in hostile and how much hoh from this war.
Hope HoH can gain enough land to beat rage and finish n1. They "deserve" it more from rest 2 kds.

Right now Simians is OUT from war declaration range with Sanctuary, so keep this tag: Sanctuary vs Simians look pathetic and stupid.

Funny post here. Out of the top3, Rage has spent more time than any other kingdom in war this age. We gained from Psych Ward war oop, Old School war, and free wave on BIO which propelled is to #1. Mechanics tend to favor dicing above all and yet we still got to our position with a mixture of wars/conflicts + dicing.

Elit you sound really bitter. Go remake Dreams and double hosile some more kingdoms.

[thecursed]

Oh, excuse me, let me correct myself.

Sanc starts and sends a dragon.
Starts bank hits
Sees Simians wave HoH
Then decides to double hostile and waves Simians


My bad. You're right that makes it look much better.

Simmens new that sanc wanted to war them... They made their intentions clear and obvious before simmens did anything. Sanc was waiting until simmons left fortified and when they did they waved them within 5 min of them leaving fortified. The fact that they were stupid enough to go and wave another KD to hostile isn't sanc problem.

I don't buy the whole "we're scared of this KD that has made their war intentions on us clear so we will wave a KD within 1 min of leaving fortified and then cry "hostile" when we get waved by the KD we should have warred."

[I_am_Spartacus]

Simmens new that sanc wanted to war them... They made their intentions clear and obvious before simmens did anything. Sanc was waiting until simmons left fortified and when they did they waved them within 5 min of them leaving fortified. The fact that they were stupid enough to go and wave another KD to hostile isn't sanc problem.

I don't buy the whole "we're scared of this KD that has made their war intentions on us clear so we will wave a KD within 1 min of leaving fortified and then cry "hostile" when we get waved by the KD we should have warred."

Nice 3rd post, well said.

[Mamman]

Even if the acres traded are fairly even war can be good for long term growth as the provinces who lose a lot of acres can typically start doing safe random hits again.

A kingdom with 10 provinces at 10k acres and 10 provinces at 2k acres has much better growth-potential than a kingdom with everyone at 6k acres.

[tak3shi]

No, when jdorje wants to call my play "dishonorable" and then does this, I'm compelled to say something.



I'm not solely blaming anyone of anything. This isn't the first time Simians have goofed this age with not considering consequences. They assume things will go as they planned and when they don't they have a hard time getting the train back on the tracks.

What I am doing is calling out jdorje for calling my kd dirty when they're pulling pretty much the EXACT same thing that we did to them and within mere hours, before their own leadership bothered to try and talk with me I've got abs leaders breathing down my neck. No, you can't call another kd dishonorable for doing something and then later come back, do it to someone else, and claim the moral high ground.



Do you think HoH was just going to let Simians get away with their acres in a conflict with Sanc? HoH was most definitely going to respond. It's safe to say it was a double hostile.


To say that Simians and Sanc are currently hostile is not entirely accurate either. Tag something else. Sanctuary waiting on Simians. Sanc Vulturing Simians. Something else because as it stands currently, it's most definitely not Sanc vs Simians.

I admit the dishourable play comment was funny and probably uncalled for. But you don't go taking that vendetta and bringing it into this, that's just immature and silly.

[Drixx]

Lame, wrong, call it what you want. I still don't see how Sanc notices us, we op them, and we're the bad guys. But Simians notices the three, Sanc explicitly waits for Simians to launch 7 hits into HoH, then starts bank hits, sends a dragon and somehow they think they're a bunch of saints.

And no. Sanc is fake tagged. They aren't fighting Simians. They're perfectly open for hits for anyone that would want to.

Intentionally misrepresenting what happened is very lame Palem. I had a higher opinion of you. If you edit your post to reflect what actually happened I will once again have a higher opinion of you. Opinions deal with subjective things. Facts deal with objective things. You know the difference, and thus it is disappointing to see.

I personally feel like people who can edit the posts of others are representatives of the game and should, therefore, try to avoid abusing facts. As DHaran and Bishop pointed out, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. In mine, moderators shouldn't intentionally post lies on the forums. See my next post for a clarification concerning opinions :)

[DHaran]

FYI, it's not "improper" for moderators to have opinions about ingame stuff (even if you don't like them), so don't even try to turn the convo that direction.

[Bishop]

It's improper for a forum moderator to intentionally misrepresent the actions of players and kds in the game. Like it or not, your green title makes you accountable to a higher standard. If you want to make propaganda posts and outright lies, then step down as moderator so it doesn't look like the people running the game are intentionally liars in order to serve their own bias.

This is not correct. Palm is fully entitled to his opinion.

edit: bah.

[DHaran]

Pwnt!