I only had to read that far.Originally Posted by Persain
A halfling/prince will outperform an orc/knight. Does that mean Halflings are OP? A _____/prince will outperform a ______/knight. That's an honor issue.
I only had to read that far.
A halfling/prince will outperform an orc/knight. Does that mean Halflings are OP? A _____/prince will outperform a ______/knight. That's an honor issue.
Take a look at the Number of fearies with alot of honor, compared to the other races. As fairies innately have more honor they need to b balanced with the assumption they will be 1-2 honor ranks higher than the targets trying to op them. As it stands right now they are slightly weaker without honor because they cant attack but become much more powerfull because they hold 1-2 honor titles higher than your average elf/halfing and are only balanced against equal honor races. Its why faeries are called op because the majority of faeries you fight have high honor.
Right...and that's an honor issue. Not a faery issue. If the bonuses for Count was put on a standalone race, that race would OP.
So removing Honor from the game or turning Honor into a kingdom based system won't fix the issue?
T/Ms apparently = black sheep of Utopia.
No it would most likely fix the issue, so would tweaking feaires in a way that removes their dependence on honor.
A number of solutions could work
Kd wide honor
new honor change
Feary=half honor bonus and then -5% pop instead of -10%
Boost to def value of elf/halfing so they can hold honor equally well to feary.
start at 1200 honor and nerf honor gains so we end up with 1-2 princes, and 4-5 dukes per age instead of 60+
Something else, but fearies will one of the strongest races as long as honor remains an issue.
Well over 50% of the top 100 Honor charts are Faery. So again given such a high % of the honor charts are dominated by Faery, you look into the reasons.
Everyone says Faery is OP with honor, getting honor is one thing but keeping it is the other. At the beginning of the age when everyone is on even terms why is it that even then Faerys can attain and keep a hold of their honor? If they were on par with other T/M races wouldn't those races equal on the charts with them?
The reasons are all through this thread, you can endlessly say they are not OP, here were some of the reasons:
1. Chain them down.
2. Get a Halfer/Rogue super thief to AW them.
3. Get an Elf super mage to LS them.
But those are all great ideas but in practice not realistic.
1. To chain a Faery down takes a lot of effort, as I said before... If attackers want to break them they need to suicide and like has been mentioned many times in this thread, after you break a Faery suiciding you'll be 300 acres by the time your army comes home.
2. Not really possible as has been stated in this thread before, in the end the numbers end up being equal even with the 20% higher TPA and then you won't even come close to the Faeries WPA which will leave you outmatched once again.
3. Same story as the Halfer but instead you'll be ripped apart by the Faeries higher TPA than you.
4. Regarding 2 and 3, you will never be able to run the DPA, TPA and WPA that a Faery can and will easily be left open to attackers... After all a 8 Def point elite beats the pants off of a 6 point... Space efficiency is what screws Elf/Halfer over against Faery.
Bishop: Regarding the "sounds cool" thing, I think that is a little presumptuous don't you think? Maybe back in the days of 60K+ players would that have carried some weight but I am pretty sure the amount of new players who would typically pick something that would "sound" cool is nothing even close to reflect the numbers we're seeing. I'd be comfortable in saying that a great portion of the players we have now understand the racial bonuses and which is more powerful than the other, hence the reason why we currently have a woping 135 Avian players, I always liked the thought of Avians but just couldn't bring myself to picking them for obvious reasons.
I play Halfling and I have no issues smacking down the strongest faeries I come across. I also do not have issues holding honor.
depends on the kds u face, whats your mod tpa, im looking at a feary in my kd, doubt you are smacking them down
<%Sissy*****> 6.7*6.7 = 44.89
[Jul 14, 2012][14:25] current tpa
Show me the break down.
TPA RAW and then show each modifier as you do the math. Then I'll tell you if I can smack down. But like I said I have not had any issues smacking down the strongest faeries I come across; have not been trumped yet.
Mod tpa 44.89
2.87*1.3*1.1*1.35*1.21 = 6.704047
6.7*6.7 = 44.89
So 187% science mod,
1.3 race mod
1.1 Invisibility
1.35 TD mod
1.21 honor mod
6.7 RAW TPA.
For what its worth mod wpa of ~32 to go along with those numbers
2.9*1.3*1.2*1.21 = 5.47404
5.8*5.47 = 31.726
190% science mod,
1.3 race mod
1.2 mages fury mod
1.21 honor mod
5.8 raw wpa
and about 148 dpa
Last edited by Persain; 23-07-2012 at 22:26.
Has me beat on the Science end of things, however, that is not impossible to fix. With as much science as I have pumped I could have easily pumped as much thievery science, and, in that case I would trump your faery. However, I have smacked down more then my fair share of Faeries this age. And your posting is the closest thing to being trumped by a faery I have experienced EVER, durring any age.
And for the record if my science was just a bit higher, I would obliterate this faery no problem.
Last edited by khronosschoty; 23-07-2012 at 22:39.
As I stated before is either A) Remove Honor completely or B) Make Honor Kingdom based as in "Total Kingdom Honor/Number of Provinces= Province Honor rank". This way it creates more teamwork and a Faery can never have a higher Honor rank than anyone else in their kingdom. This way the population will be 100% at fault for not preventing Faeries or other provinces from having Count/Countess+ Honor ranking if the Honor system isn't removed. You will also have a more balanced and diverse Honor chart. What is so hard about this method to fix the Honor issue (which is the main reason Faery provinces look so OP)?
T/Ms apparently = black sheep of Utopia.
sure could trump, yet what wpa & dpa does that put u on to not only break 44 tpa but to easily op it? That feary is just run of the mill from what i've seen. Last age when we wared CanWE in the last 4 days of the age their feary was sitting on 170 dpa and from what we could gather about 40-50 tpa and 30ish wpa.
Funny thing is, I war a lot, and I never actually come across faeries that I cannot easily smash. I steal their runes, and if need be I kill their wizards. I NS their expensive elites, I keep incite riots on them all war.
Often times, not always, I get very shockingly good gains on killing their wizards.
Last edited by khronosschoty; 23-07-2012 at 23:04.
I don't see why people play faeries, to be honest. I think defense heavy a/m-a/t halflings, humans, and elves would be better in today's meta. You win out on space efficiency because you get an extra 20% WPA or TPA, you don't have a -10% pop mod, and you don't have to build an UB defense. You can still use your tertiary role, you just can't necessarily break everyone in the KD (but oh wait, you couldn't break the super mages/ super thiefs as a faery anyway, and you probably didn't even want to bother with opping them much [or the other faeries], because they're not a short term threat).
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