Age 55 potential changes

[Sheister]

Faery does not need a pop nerf. and -3 generals is a HUGE penalty to faes. Now they will not be able to take advantage of mid-war opportunities.

[Ahab]

I think all of the race/personality changes are fine as is. I hope we'll see the final changes by at least Friday so we can have some reliable numbers for planning purposes, but I think they look good as proposed.

[nooblet]

Seriously folks, no need for the walls of text, just suggest changes and give a brief explanation why its needed.

There is always a need for huge walls of text. How else will us noobs think we're good players?

Also, fae is fine this age, if it's playing the same role as this age. Elf got buffed, but a lot of races got their offense buffed as well.

Orcs with 7/2 elite, Undead with 7/3. Orcs lose some of their gains bonus, Undead get a much more expensive elite. They're both heavy-attacking races, having some defense on their elites makes sense. It also makes warring without anon playable.

Nerf Orc leet credits from war wins.

EDIT: -3 generals is a more substantial penalty for Faery t/m than -offspecs, as any good faery in a warring kingdom can tell you. That alone would give me incentive to not pick Faery, buff defense or not.

[Palem]

I'm just going to pick and choose some part to respond to to avoid Bishop becoming angry...

I'm not at all responsible for age changes. That seemed like a common theme so I thought I would get it out of the way first...

I assume you are a SKD yourselves here by the way how you say.

I'm not. You can ask anyone.

Of course I realise too a Faery is breakable. I didnt say they are invincible.

Then why are we having this discussion?

The ways and countermeasurement you are trying to argue here, the ways, strategies, whatever you are trying to show here, all are only achievable, are only applicable, when you have that kind of dicipline, that kind of high activity level of players in your kd. Which means, a top kd, a Super Kingdom.

...No. It's not like the top has these top secret strategies that are only accessible to them.
Got a faery that's causing problems that maybe you can't break. Start conquesting. Boom, secret revealed.

And there is no point trying to argue that " a T/M race is useless when they are breakable". I really cant bring myself to agree with this, there is really no such kind of logic at all, it simply makes no sense.

Putting massacres aside which obviously make TMs black and blue, if you attack a TM until it drops to the bottom of the their kd there's nothing the TM can do to be effective anymore. If they try to stay small and op, they're an easy target for larger provs who can just continue to attack them, perhaps with massacres to finish the job. If they try to grow back up to where they were originally they run into problems where LL will only get them so much land, couple that on the fact that they can't grow as fast as attackers, not only because of the land thing but because their pezzie count will have taken a hit from the land drop and they don't earn spec/building credits and their elites are too expensive to be able to just casually purchase. Plus if they're trying to grow back, they're LL, and not spreading ops like they're supposed to be doing.

Land dropped Faery -> Useless.

I can tell you back the same here that an attacker is useless when they "opable" too.

lol...no. Ops don't kill attackers. They can continue to attack and be productive regardless of whatever ops have been thrown at them. Attacks do kill TMs.

Out among the 60%-80% average kds there, whats the fun or excitement is there when everyone knows how powerful Faeries will be the next age? Come on.. this is an honest and kind opinion that I am offering here, I am really unhappy when you take me as a trouble maker you know. Take my points the hostile way or the friendly way as you prefer, well its not I can control what others think anyway.

If you're worried about people running a lot of faeries, run a core of halfers and safely CQ faeries out of war. There, fun has ensued.

[Elurin]

No offence here Palem, but you're running faery completely wrong and what you say is based on a very limited idea of their full usability. 25 faeries is a horrible setup, but that has nothing to do with how good faery are. The thing is that EVERY war kd needs to run between 3-6 faeries to have a chance. They drop in effectivness after that so to run even 10 is stupid. However, the fact that there is a single race that demands a presence in every kd signals that something is wrong. You can argue all you like that a halfer can op a faery or 10 orcs can chain 1 faery - fact of the matter is in reality a kd who knows how to play those 3-6 faeries will not lose vs a kd with 0 (or 25) faeries. Disclaimer the kd's same skill, same activity, same prepare time and all that, but you get the idea.

Awhile ago when there was no clear T/M race, different kd's opted for different ways to include the awesomness of MS coverage and other ops. Some used 3-5 pure T/M's of races similar to how elf or halfling looks at the moment, other's used 15 hybrids (accounting for how easy hybrids are to disable) to achieve this result. By having a "all-in-one" race that is superior to any other T/M in kd wide effectivness there is a decrease in differentiation and choice. This should be avoided, and is not the case for any other race.

To be constructive; I either suggest removing the T/M-race concept completely (forcing players to adjust hybrid races into T/Ms as is doable) or maintain them as a very high risk/reward race that is ffar harder to play than the current faeries. -10% pop would accomplish this. Since I already feel the race choice to be limited, I prefer turning faery into another a/m option (similar to old DE) and adding gnomes as a second a/t option but this is probably unrealistic.

[khronosschoty]

I'm just going to pick and choose some part to respond to to avoid Bishop becoming angry...

I'm not at all responsible for age changes. That seemed like a common theme so I thought I would get it out of the way first...



I'm not. You can ask anyone.


Then why are we having this discussion?



...No. It's not like the top has these top secret strategies that are only accessible to them.
Got a faery that's causing problems that maybe you can't break. Start conquesting. Boom, secret revealed.


Putting massacres aside which obviously make TMs black and blue, if you attack a TM until it drops to the bottom of the their kd there's nothing the TM can do to be effective anymore. If they try to stay small and op, they're an easy target for larger provs who can just continue to attack them, perhaps with massacres to finish the job. If they try to grow back up to where they were originally they run into problems where LL will only get them so much land, couple that on the fact that they can't grow as fast as attackers, not only because of the land thing but because their pezzie count will have taken a hit from the land drop and they don't earn spec/building credits and their elites are too expensive to be able to just casually purchase. Plus if they're trying to grow back, they're LL, and not spreading ops like they're supposed to be doing.

Land dropped Faery -> Useless.


lol...no. Ops don't kill attackers. They can continue to attack and be productive regardless of whatever ops have been thrown at them. Attacks do kill TMs.


If you're worried about people running a lot of faeries, run a core of halfers and safely CQ faeries out of war. There, fun has ensued.

Thanks for posting such a worth while post Palem -- I think what you wrote is very true.

[zercousy]

I support elurin post, we do understand and glad to enjoy a few round of faery last few ages...but..faery should not keep it a t/m only pick.
i would rather suggest , make faery a doable attacker as well...take off faery tpa buff, make the elite 6/1 OR
off spec +1 with elite 4/4

Revamp the human ,bring back the ancient human, that having income and sci bonus.

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In addition, i would like to suggest..

Make more game changes, current posted change is boring, you just rework on the number...the game mechanic is fine as it is..
Bring back artisan/freak/shepherd we have , alter a minor changes on current personality, (i knew you did on sages)

and this
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks << remove this
when the time , u can train elite?? -->> lower elite price...

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1 more thing the Spell Book...

last age, you make a good swap on spell book with diff race, i hope you could consider to make some swap spell as well...
and this will make game even interesting..and not bored like what we have now.
my suggestion on your current potencial:

Nightmare - Dwarf
Pitfall - Undead
Reflect Magic - Avian,Elves
Clearsight - Orc
QuickFeet - Elves
Bloodlust - Elves
Fanaticism - Avian
Greater Protection - Orc
Animate Dead - Orc,Halfings
Chastity - Elf
Fools Gold - Elf
Amnesia - Human
Aggression - Halflings
War Spoils - Orc
Tree of Gold - Elf,Human
Faery - Access to All offensive duration spell only and all kind of self spell (<-- No MV, No FB, Tornado)

seriously, made this changes a must every age. I don't care which spell u gave to them, but...make it swap each ages.

thank you.

[Palem]

Why does everyone assume that if I mention anything about how a faery can be dealt with I'm talking about TFC? Isn't it possible that I'm fully aware that 25 faeries is a bad setup, but I do it anyway because I enjoy it but I'm also perfectly aware how the 'regular' kds function and how Faery TMs are used/function in those kd?

That said, you're just wrong Elurin. Yes, Faeries are the "obvious" TM choices but you can function without them just the same as Orc/Undead are the "obvious" attacker choices and you can still function without them as well.

edit:
that said, I would most certainly support killing the intended TM role and making faeries a hybrid :)

[Araqiel]

Elurin said the problem is that faeries are essential to a warring Kingdom to be successful this age. This is broken.

Agreed Orc/Undead are the counterpart as attackers, but they aren't built like brick **** houses. Faery are immune to ops (even halfers are going to have a tough time breaking them) but potentially vulnerable to big attackers. Big attackers are vulnerable to ops and attacks.

No other race has fae's turtling and offensive power in one. This is broken.

[lastunicorn]

No other race has fae's turtling and offensive power in one. This is broken.

120opa and +30% gains makes up for the fact that orcs are vulnerable in my book.

[Petrified]

Orc offensive capabilities relative to other races are already nerfed this age by around 10% and they have +20% gains not 30.

With these changes, the defensive capabilities of faeries are buffed when compared to the offensive capabilities of other races. Faeries need to be nerfed, not buffed. As Elurin said, I can't even IMAGINE running a kingdom with no faeries. This sucks.

[Persain]

I'm not at all responsible for age changes. That seemed like a common theme so I thought I would get it out of the way first...

Your not?!?! i though any feary change had to get pre-approved ;)

Anyway, 3 quick things

...No. It's not like the top has these top secret strategies that are only accessible to them.
Got a faery that's causing problems that maybe you can't break. Start conquesting. Boom, secret revealed.

Thats one way its not the only way. Can also bounce wave them in war.

they don't earn spec/building credits and their elites are too expensive to be able to just casually purchase.

WW=spec credits. Fearies can save up spec credits for war and boom 4000 free specs/dragon killers :P Just saying its possible.

If you're worried about people running a lot of faeries, run a core of halfers and safely CQ faeries out of war. There, fun has ensued.

I've show it before that normally your going to end up hafling tpa<feary tpa how is a halfer core supposed to op a feary hard?

fact of the matter is in reality a kd who knows how to play those 3-6 faeries will not lose vs a kd with 0 (or 25) faeries. Disclaimer the kd's same skill, same activity, same prepare time and all that, but you get the idea.

i really hope this is true, warring a decent kd right now feary v non fearies and as far as i can tell our skill is all on par with each other. As well even if some might disagree fighting 24v25 with similar acitivty and not geting destroyed says something. We have only 1 of our fairies that I'd say plays feary "sub par" If your reading this butcher your not supposed to be chained every war on any race you play ;)

[Palem]

Faeries def got buffed?

You understand that all the formerly "lesser" offensive mechanics got stronger this age right?
Mercs - better
Prisoners - better
Soldiers - better
Ponies - better

In what realm did faeries somehow become less breakable?

edit:
@persain - I didn't say anything about op'ing them did I? lol

[Persain]

In what realm did faeries somehow become less breakable?

edit:
@persain - I didn't say anything about op'ing them did I? lol

+10% population is less breakable i'd say. Or at a minimum equally breakable. Yes u didnt say anything about oping them i guess i just assumed by "halfing core." Pray tell why u think a halfing core is better an feary conquest than an orc/undead core?

[Palem]

Turtle better. Good thief def. Can op the non-faeries very easily :)