Mercy vs Pulse round 2.

[citadela01]

As long as there is one kingdom who will CF and dice/sci pump early age away, everyone else has to do the same, because the game doesn't allow fair competition by playing it any differently. That's what I meant by the game needing change, not the kingdoms style of play.

This used to be truth. These days with pretty much only 2 sides in the game it's not.

[Palem]

So are you arguing that if Sanc won that war they could have continued warring and still been competitive late? If that's what you're saying, then all I can do is chuckle.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying (with the exception of them keeping their original elves).

Warring earlier gives a science advantage. (Prolly still have to sneak a pump in around mid-age)
Warring earlier gives an honor advantage.
Warring earlier eliminates later competition with a good enough win (Sanc)
Obviously, warring later gives the outrageous land win-bonus.
The only time it might be better to not war and go the traditional route would be mid-age to get your science pump in which should be smoother with better honor.

[goodz]

So are you arguing that if Sanc won that war they could have continued warring and still been competitive late? If that's what you're saying, then all I can do is chuckle.



They adapt to game changes. Nothing about the game has changed to make CFing and sci-pumps unnecessary to crown. I'm still waiting on you to suggest a way to compete with another method.

Well it seems that pulse has warred 4x and is about to go for number 5. If a war on average takes 1 week including EoW CF. Pre war pump takes say 4 days. That is 55 real life days of the age they have been warring/preparing for war. Plus 3 days for start of age when you cannot war. That is 58 days. The age is only about 90 days. So imo they have done a fair bit of warring.

Sure Mercy has only warred 2x going on 3. One of the KD's you warred being a total ghetto. But thats fine, it just means you probably have more science for this EoA war. The difference in style is largely dictated by how you decided to play the age. Partially because your in abs and that means your napped to 2/3rds of the growth kingdoms, but it was largely a choice. You could have refused to NAP pulse 50 days ago, and who knows who would be competing for the top.

The way I see it, this age the only KD who napped everyone and explored was mercy. So don't complain about being forced to nap everyone and explore.

[Korp]

So are you arguing that if Sanc won that war they could have continued warring and still been competitive late? If that's what you're saying, then all I can do is chuckle.



They adapt to game changes. Nothing about the game has changed to make CFing and sci-pumps unnecessary to crown. I'm still waiting on you to suggest a way to compete with another method.

What Elurin said but my suggestion is that you step out of that safe zone try something new, you might not succeed but hell it will make you look alot less a sheep. Lets take Faery Circle for an example, everybody laughed at Palem for wanting to do his thing and they said he would fail utterly but what Faery Circle ended up 6th in NW that age, with a bit more active core they would probably ended up even higher (and yes I know they had cfs but honestly there was no good deals)

[TheRock]

The way I see it, this age the only KD who napped everyone and explored was mercy. So don't complain about being forced to nap everyone and explore.

Just FYI, this is completely not true and is almost entirely the opposite of what happened, but other than that, nice post.

[goodz]

Just FYI, this is completely not true and is almost entirely the opposite of what happened, but other than that, nice post.

Well either way. ABs is 4/5 of the top 5 which clearly forces you to dice if you are in abs. Otherwise you would be forced to hit alliance members. Or war pulse over and over. Although if you had beat pulse in war it certainly would have been fun to straight out of war wave them again. I am surprised with the war bonuses there has been no back to back wars forced!

But pulse has been warring a ton this age, that is pretty obvious. Sanctuary also warred a ton this age. HOH warred a ton this age. Rage warred a few times but not much. Mercy pretty much didn't war anyone for the first 7 weeks. Good news is there has been a ton more wars in the top then normal.

[flogger]

Well either way. ABs is 4/5 of the top 5 which clearly forces you to dice if you are in abs. Otherwise you would be forced to hit alliance members. Or war pulse over and over. Although if you had beat pulse in war it certainly would have been fun to straight out of war wave them again. I am surprised with the war bonuses there has been no back to back wars forced!

But pulse has been warring a ton this age, that is pretty obvious. Sanctuary also warred a ton this age. HOH warred a ton this age. Rage warred a few times but not much. Mercy pretty much didn't war anyone for the first 7 weeks. Good news is there has been a ton more wars in the top then normal.

We warred one kd straight OOP, so after that, we had one war every 4 weeks or so, so we weren't exactly warring non-stop. In the top the main thing preventing warring back to back is that the randoms were so good this age from the explore pool, people were happy growing faster out of war. Also I would expect a back to back war in the event someone withdrew up alot of land, that hasn't really happenned this age, and its rude to war someone you just beat again immediately afterwards if you gained land.

Outside of Pulse v Mercy rd 1, most every war has been unusually one-sided this age for whatever reason, also preventing alot of back to backs.

[flogger]

So are you arguing that if Sanc won that war they could have continued warring and still been competitive late? If that's what you're saying, then all I can do is chuckle.

Sanc was very close to being able to win the age this age, I would much rather be fighting Mercy than Sanctuary this late in the age. Topfeeding avian counts? No thank you.

[DHaran]

Mercy pretty much didn't war anyone for the first 7 weeks.

Also wrong. We fought Inso (they were #1 at the time, very early) for a week until they backed off from maxing the meter until we had no gains left and had to move on.

Sanc was very close to being able to win the age this age, I would much rather be fighting Mercy than Sanctuary this late in the age. Topfeeding avian counts? No thank you.

An honor-heavy Avian is still an Avian. I'd rather fight Avians over Dwarf any day. They can have all the honor they want, they won't keep it and they can't fight long term.

[TheRock]

Well either way. ABs is 4/5 of the top 5 which clearly forces you to dice if you are in abs. Otherwise you would be forced to hit alliance members. Or war pulse over and over. Although if you had beat pulse in war it certainly would have been fun to straight out of war wave them again. I am surprised with the war bonuses there has been no back to back wars forced!

But pulse has been warring a ton this age, that is pretty obvious. Sanctuary also warred a ton this age. HOH warred a ton this age. Rage warred a few times but not much. Mercy pretty much didn't war anyone for the first 7 weeks. Good news is there has been a ton more wars in the top then normal.

Abs only picked up 4 of the top 5 late in the age, after winning wars. You do realize that for large parts of the age, Jerks, BIO and Psych Ward were in the top 5 spots, but dropped out after losing wars, right? Abs is 4 of the top 5 not because we explore all age, but because we repeatedly won wars against those kingdoms – HOH vs Psych Ward, Mercy vs Psych Ward, Rage vs BIO, Rage vs Psych Ward, Sanc vs Jerks, all went Abs’ way? It’s not that we avoided wars to get ahead – it’s that we won wars that propelled us out front. Consider that the only non-Abs kingdom in the Top 5, Pulse, also won their wars, which allowed them to stay up top too.

You do also realize Pulse warred three times, while Mercy warred twice and had an extended five day hostile in a 1 v 2 fight with Insolence, right? Our fight with Inso was in Year 1 and our fight with Pulse was in August, well before Year 7, so again, you’re completely wrong in what you said there. In fact, you cited Pulse and Mercy as being completely different cases, when Pulse and Mercy had the same number of fights this age, with almost identical timing and spacing.

So once again Goodz, very nice story, but it’s completely wrong. The facts show that your narrative is bull****. Other than that, nice post.

[DHaran]

Beat you to it.

[goodz]

Abs only picked up 4 of the top 5 late in the age, after winning wars. You do realize that for large parts of the age, Jerks, BIO and Psych Ward were in the top 5 spots, but dropped out after losing wars, right? Abs is 4 of the top 5 not because we explore all age, but because we repeatedly won wars against those kingdoms – HOH vs Psych Ward, Mercy vs Psych Ward, Rage vs BIO, Rage vs Psych Ward, Sanc vs Jerks, all went Abs’ way? It’s not that we avoided wars to get ahead – it’s that we won wars that propelled us out front. Consider that the only non-Abs kingdom in the Top 5, Pulse, also won their wars, which allowed them to stay up top too.

You do also realize Pulse warred three times, while Mercy warred twice and had an extended five day hostile in a 1 v 2 fight with Insolence, right? Our fight with Inso was in Year 1 and our fight with Pulse was in August, well before Year 7, so again, you’re completely wrong in what you said there. In fact, you cited Pulse and Mercy as being completely different cases, when Pulse and Mercy had the same number of fights this age, with almost identical timing and spacing.

So once again Goodz, very nice story, but it’s completely wrong. The facts show that your narrative is bull****. Other than that, nice post.

Are you unable to read. I am saying it limits your wars not that you didn't war at all. I did say mercy in particular warred the least of the ABS kingdoms. I literally wrote down that sanct/rage/hoh warred a bunch of times. But who spent the age pumping and dicing, your the one who said kingdoms were forced to spent most of the age pumping and dicing. Rage did get stuck doing that for awhile because they napped pulse and were napped to abs and had an early lead. Other then that hasn't been much of it...

See below: I am arguing against this, it seems you guys are now arguing with me and agreeing that the thing below did not happen.

Originally Posted by DHaran
As long as there is one kingdom who will CF and dice/sci pump early age away, everyone else has to do the same, because the game doesn't allow fair competition by playing it any differently. That's what I meant by the game needing change, not the kingdoms style of play.

[DHaran]

Pulse and Mercy have not warred continuously, and Pulse and Mercy are the only kingdoms in contention. We had 5 weeks of pumping between our early conflicts and our mid-age war. Had Mercy continued war hunting during that period and Pulse kept pumping, this age would already be over. The later wars are what made the difference for the contending kingdoms, but continuous warring is still not competitive to a kingdom who pumps/dices early.

[goodz]

Pulse and Mercy have not warred continuously, and Pulse and Mercy are the only kingdoms in contention. We had 5 weeks of pumping between our early conflicts and our mid-age war. Had Mercy continued war hunting during that period and Pulse kept pumping, this age would already be over. The later wars are what made the difference for the contending kingdoms, but continuous warring is still not competitive to a kingdom who pumps/dices early.

I don't recall pulse having a 5 week break. You wouldn't be in contention if it wasn't for the psych ward farm out :P

I am just saying 4-5 wars in an age is about as many as you can expect / would want. If your not in abs you probably would need 2-3 extra wars in an age to have a shot at winning because you will have less EOA naps..

I don't think the game currently requires you to dice and pump more then ~30% of the time to compete for a crown.

[Realest]

I think there needs to be a rule where you need to have crowned before to discuss crowning approach. Like TheRock says, lots of nice stories in here, but it's all wrong.