Let's Throw Down - Stables and Ponies, yay or nay?

[Ethan]

Is anyone going to bother calcing the static stable/tg break point? Ideally both for OPA and OPNW. I'm got some connection issues so it won't be me - someone ought to though. Because modifying the break point to account for dynamic considerations does still require a point to modify from. Otherwise it all just starts from hot air, and ain't going anywhere from there.

[tetley]

Ethan you know you are the man for the job ...

very rough math regarding elves:
assume a 75% BE
assume a full elite offense as an elf (5/3s)
1 attack on each of your elf lords so each horse represents a 20% increase in attack power per dude (from 5 up to 6)
you have to run ~14% stables to reliably have a horse for each attacker? (anyone feel free to correct me here)
to get the same 20% increase in OME you have to run about ~23% TGs

so with a 5 power army stables seem at first glance like they give more bang for your buck in terms of % buildings.

edit: this might be a rehash of some of the math in the previous thread.

[astronomer86]

I am correct.

[Zobo]

Overbuildings tgs is effective, not the case with stables. I dont know why you guys are even arguing, tgs> stables.

You don't rebuild stables (or any capacity building) in war. You keep armies in/out, and rebuild other buildings (heck, you can even build TGs if you'd like). Horses can last for days even with all of the stables gone, or after getting deep chained down. TGs drop soon as land comes in, when your BE drops because you're shelled out, or because you got Tornadoed/Arsoned. Stables maintain offense if you can reliably log in regardless, unless you get overpopped and can't send out.

That said, playing with stables and missing your attack time by an hour, or having an attack land at the 59th minute of an hour can be devastating to your offense after all the stables have gone. Has happened to me a couple times. However, it was all still just free offense at that point. Had no building ties, no ties to population, immune to ops, bumped up my NW so I could get bigger gains (since my defense all left anyways, not like I"m holding onto anything).... pretty awesome stuff.

Is anyone going to bother calcing the static stable/tg break point? Ideally both for OPA and OPNW. I'm got some connection issues so it won't be me - someone ought to though. Because modifying the break point to account for dynamic considerations does still require a point to modify from. Otherwise it all just starts from hot air, and ain't going anywhere from there.

That's complex and will require considerations for EPA, Race, Personality, and honor. Any OME mod will increase stable strength and not increase TG strength.
Any BE mod will increase TG strength and not stable strength. If you want absolutes (one or the other), halflings, humans, elves and faeries will all see greater offense from running pure stables than running pure TGs (up to 18% land; after which you're going from suicidal to super suiciding). Orcs and UDs will see greater returns running pure TGs up to like... 20% or something.

[astronomer86]

Zobo i am Orc this Age. In early Age 10% Stables benefit me more than 10% Training Grounds. 2000 Ogres = 14,000 offense points. 10% (50) Stables add 3000 points. I dont know exactly what percent bonus 10% Training Grounds give (as i have none yet) but im sure Stables benefit me moreso. 10% Tg approx 12-15% = 2100 points at the most.

[Bishop]

You don't rebuild stables (or any capacity building) in war. You keep armies in/out, and rebuild other buildings (heck, you can even build TGs if you'd like). Horses can last for days even with all of the stables gone, or after getting deep chained down. TGs drop soon as land comes in, when your BE drops because you're shelled out, or because you got Tornadoed/Arsoned. Stables maintain offense if you can reliably log in regardless, unless you get overpopped and can't send out.

That said, playing with stables and missing your attack time by an hour, or having an attack land at the 59th minute of an hour can be devastating to your offense after all the stables have gone. Has happened to me a couple times. However, it was all still just free offense at that point. Had no building ties, no ties to population, immune to ops, bumped up my NW so I could get bigger gains (since my defense all left anyways, not like I"m holding onto anything).... pretty awesome stuff.

Keeping armies in/out is not viable for the vast majority of players and you can never guarantee it will be possible. Horses can be stolen, idk why you think they are immune to ops? Horses add networth, this is a bad thing though you seem to think otherwise for some reason. Stables take a long time to fill and so cannot be rebuilt to good effect in war. These are the reasons you get your TGs in first. TGs are instant effect nw-free offense that mod your entire offensive army. You cap out your tgs, then you add stables.

[maru]

Zobo i am Orc this Age. In early Age 10% Stables benefit me more than 10% Training Grounds. 2000 Ogres = 14,000 offense points. 10% (50) Stables add 3000 points. I dont know exactly what percent bonus 10% Training Grounds give (as i have none yet) but im sure Stables benefit me moreso. 10% Tg approx 12-15% = 2100 points at the most.

What.

[astronomer86]

Read the words. They form sentences.

[Bishop]

I understood them, the only issue I have with them is you are not drafted and trained.

[astronomer86]

I switched to a new Kingdom. I am 36 hours behind everyone else. The numbers don't match my province perfectly either. I see what you mean about waiting for horses to accumulate too. The benefits of hindsight ...

[citadela01]

Bishop is pointing out you have 2k leets on 500 acres. Thats why stables work for you, cause of low troops/acre. Do the math for 5k leets on 500 acres and you will see tg‘s are outperforming stables by far.

[astronomer86]

I dont have anywhere near that many.

[astronomer86]

I see how TGs would be better for an all elite Orc army. I also trained Trolls.

[citadela01]

It doesnt matter if you have some specs.
1% stables gives you flat opa increas regardless of number of troops you have (as long as you have troops to actually mount them).
1% tgs gives opa increase which is function of your existing opa and BE.

Only a province with very low raw opa (like yours) will find stables better. Things complicate a bit when you take into account diminishing returns on tg‘s and the facs stables benefit from existing tg‘s but as a rule of the thumb you need a nice chunk of tg‘s for stables to actually provide opa increase over tg‘s.

[astronomer86]

My situation disregards your rule of thumb. No offense. Next Age i shall do things differently. Cheers.