Should Proteus pay KuhaN?

[JJ NA]

I bet you a hundred dollars that you're a big kookah

[Realest]

technically, since the Jolt server already holds the credits in escrow, would a credit bet bypass the "K" ?

[munk]

this is proteus:

http://www.lememe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/gif

[tetley]

Proteus, the question is not whether in law you had a legally binding contract or not lol. There's a pretty slim chance Kuhan would have any success in a civil action. But that doesn't mean you didn't make a verbal agreement and perhaps by some personal or moral obligation you ought to pay him. there's no doubt about the essence of what you had in mind at the time you were talking big.

[mastakizzor]

oh come on now tetley.. we're just getting into this trolling phase of Proteus's case (damn it rhymed), so dont drag it back to the discussion phase..

[FinalFantasyWorld]

You guys are all idiots. It is capable of being a binding contract. For a binding contract to be formed all you need is an offer, an acceptance and consideration. All of the 3 conditions are satisfied and hence, contract= binding. Ok don't take my word for it, go look up the Restatement of Contracts yourself or your relevant domestic legislation OR better yet, just consult devolution, silva and migz.

Offer: Proteus: i Bet $100 to anyone in this forum that Sanc beats AMA

Acceptance: Kuhan: I call it!

Consideration: Money ofc

End story. Condition of ASF being contactable is not in the contract. ASF is a suggested method of payment and not capable of voiding a contract.

PS: I would post cases myself but I cba to look up californian caselaw on contracts especially since there is already the restatement of contracts being authority for it and its Saturday night.
PSS: In case you were wondering why it is California law that applies, if you can't answer it, go back to law school and relearn why.

And one last thing, Nice try on the gentleman's bet. The original intentions were serious enough to backfire on you.

[Elldallan]

PSS: In case you were wondering why it is California law that applies, if you can't answer it, go back to law school and relearn why.

The logical reason would be that it's because where Kuhan's forum profile says he lives BUT, as with all things relating to the internet this is fuzzy at best. They way I see it there are 3 possible jurisdictions,
1: California where kuhan is.
2: the location where the bet took place(which relating to the physical world would be wherever the server the bet was made of resides(whether the bet first happened on utonet or here I don't know).
3: wherever Proteus resides.

It's extremely doubtful that unless proteus is a resident of the United States that a california court could actually bring jurisdiction on a foreign national, much less prompt said citizen to appear before the court to relieve judgement, if anyone appeared it would most likely only be to dispute the court having jurisdiction.
It is far more likely if you want a successful outcome to take the procedure to wherever proteus resides.

Now $100 is far too little to even bother with any of this over so this is all just speculations anyway.

[Lestat]

I demand he is bought to California to face Arnies justice.

[flutterby]

PS: I would post cases myself but I cba to look up californian caselaw on contracts especially since there is already the restatement of contracts being authority for it and its Saturday night.
PSS: In case you were wondering why it is California law that applies, if you can't answer it, go back to law school and relearn why.

Would it be California because that's where Kuhan lives or would it be where the servers are based because that's where the bet was 'made'?

[skraz]

pheonix and others defending proteus - a public verbal agreement (it was in public) is as close to a handshake as you can get

i recently (few ages ago now) made a private bet with lightning about the results of our war, when we lost, i paid up and sent her the agreed items of the bet for losing. There was no middle man, there wasnt even a public declaration on forums or anything so it was even less "valid" in your eyes than this situation. But i paid. Why? cause a bet is a ****ing bet, if you have the balls to make the bet, you better pay up when you lose otherwise your a lying scamming person with no substance.
and no thats not my opinion its fact.

proteus owes kuhan 100$

[Realest]

Syntico, J.D. has already checked in. Listen to the man, will ya.

[Syntico]

FinalFantasy, my brain just exploded.

[FinalFantasyWorld]

Incorrect. A contract is finalized wherever the acceptance is. Where the offer is made is irrelevant. Wherever Proteus lives is also irrelevant. As long as Proteus can be served you can sue him and get judgement.

Citizenship is irrelevant when you sue in a Civil court. Just serve it.

[Elldallan]

Incorrect. A contract is finalized wherever the acceptance is. Where the offer is made is irrelevant. Wherever Proteus lives is also irrelevant. As long as Proteus can be served you can sue him and get judgement.

Citizenship is irrelevant when you sue in a Civil court. Just serve it.

Sure you can serve it if you find him but unless he lives in the US he will most likely not show up for court and the judge will hand down a summary judgement.
But then the problem starts, you will have a major pain getting his nation of residence to recognize the jurisdiction of the Californian court(and thus it's right to hand down a judgement) and if said nation don't recognize that the court has a right to hand down a judgement you will have no legal recourse to reclaim the money.
This is why nationality matters, not whether you can actually serve and sue someone of another nationality in civil court .
Generally no nation will recognize the rights of any court to hand down judgement other than it's own justice system with a few exceptions(and the major ones I know of are the European Union, the Scandinavian nations an(who have an agreement with each other separate from the one the EU requires between member nations) and the International war crimes tribunal in Hague(which all civilized nations recognize except the US(they have even promised to invade the Netherlands and retrieve any american the tribunal tries to bring proceedings against)).

Judgement from a US civil court matters very little to someone in say, Germany or Sweden, the US may be able to extradite someone to face major criminal charges but a petty civil charge they will simply ignore.

[FinalFantasyWorld]

You got me there about extradition. Unless Kuhan magically lives in Nevada where there is a debtor's prison, Proteus is close to untouchable