AMA vs sanct round 2

[Elit]

Ive been rooting for AMA all through this but i have 1 question.

Why don't u just war mercy as you're 7 million NW larger, way more pumped and have cow advantage?

We will war them when its solved with sanctuary. Don't look NW, because Havoc is untrained and they will jump much after pump up.

[Realest]

ASF, stop accusing Elit of hacking, you're just lowering your credibility. I was the one who authorized the logging in of your ex player's accounts and Elit has no knowledge of it. Bishop can verify this as admin, and I'm positive you know the real story behind it. There's no need to smear Elit to drive your propaganda here.

[goodz]

Realest are you all done your exams?

[protector]

I guess we need a proper agreement documentation in the future when there is any agreement between non-abs and abs. Those with the correct/precise wording clauses, and a proper due diligent process before the ageement/signing of any deals.

For example:

Hostile acts are defined as the follow:
a) any action by one party against the other party which contributes to the meter.
b) Mage/Thievery ops of more than 5 times by one party against the other party which contributes to the meter.

For avoidance of doubt, hostile acts does not represented by the degree of the relations.

Mage ops: Any operations as stipulated in the Utopia Guides.
Thievery ops: Any operations as stipulated in the Utopia Guides.

An event of deal breaking will subject to the Utopia Court of Justice in accordance to law of Utopia. If found guilty, the guilty party shall penalized with a minimum penalty of not less than individual deletion and a maximum penalty of kdwide deletions.


I'm not a lawyer and my english sucks. I believe the poeple around here can come out with a better wordings :D

As if Abs is ever going to honor it lol. No offense, but no-one has ever abused grey area's and rewording as much as some of our dear Abs people here. There are plenty examples. I'll turn grey if I start writing them all up.

[Realest]

the idea is to play their colouring game better than them but the problem is that all the nice sharp crayons are in absalom.

[protector]

"Abs" did not use intra alliance farming. Ingame cf's were in place during your accusations. According to the forum, one Sanctuary player robbed havoc without havoc's permission after havoc broke ingame cf as proof to you that your accusations were wrong. Since this was not agreed to and not authorized and not something Abs does or allows, havoc appears to have informed you of that one sanc players actions. Obviously that sanc player shouldn't have done that, but it's pretty desperate to try and claim that abs uses intra farming because one player did something unauthorized when cf was temporarily broken specifically for you to disprove your false accusations.

Describing in the same paragraph how Abs does not use intra alliance farming as well as one of Sanctuary's players robbing gold from Havoc simply doesn't make you look too good.
You can just say it was unauthorized but was it really? I thought you where inactive, so how the hell would you know??

I don't have much say over forum bets and it did not involve me even though it appears that there were attempts to involve me when I was away. Although it didn't involve me, if you want my opinion, I'll give it. 1) I think that people shouldn't make bets that they don't intend to keep and that it should be clear if the bet is valid to both parties before the outcome takes place. 2) There seems to have been concern by at least one of the parties if the other would pay the bet had they won. If they are not confident in the other party paying should they win, then it makes sense that they might not want to make the bet at all since it'd be a situation where they could only lose or not get paid. There was clearly talk of using an intermediary to eliminate this problem but I was not available and they didn't find anyone else. This created a situation where continuing the bet placed both parties in position where if they won, they might not get paid and if they lost they either had to pay on what may have been a one sided bet or they looked like chumps for not paying.

Proteus seems to have considered the bet not in place without the intermediary. Kuhan says he'd have still paid although it's hard to know for sure. My opinion is therefore that if Proteus wanted an intermediary as condition of the bet as it seems he did from his posts before and after, then he should have made it more clear that the bet was only in place if that condition was met. Otherwise he left Kuhan in position where it was unclear if the bet was in place and where had Proteus won, he might have tried to claim the bet was still on, but still had enough gray area to claim that it was not on when he lost. Therefore, people should either 1) not make dumb internet bets, or 2) make sure the terms are clear to both parties and that both parties will stick to them.

Bet is a bet and is valid when you have 2 or more people accept the bet. The bet was thrown up and no requirements where written down to be met before it was valid. Proteus merely suggested a middleman (you) but it was never deemed a requirement!
If the posts made by KuhaN and Proteus are clear to 99% of the people reading the forum, I wonder how stupid you have to be to not understand there was no terms.

[protector]

It's Elit trying to claim he's the saint here and denying any target sharing when his public posts target sharing havoc were on these forums for all to see.

As for beastblood and Rage, yes Rage cf'd Beastblood after beating you in war and did not try and use you as a safety net to dodge Elit's notice. Elit on the other hand did not cf Sanc and wanted to use them to dodge Havoc's notice. I agree with you that that is the difference.

Elit never denied his post. And if you do some research and get the full picture, you'd see why he did what he did. Being pissed at dorje for accusing him of cheating (not directly speaking, but by saying Elit knew about this and that).

[protector]

Robbing isn't hostile. Havoc followed the deal and gave notice when appropriate, then you instigated a hostile with Sanc. The notice is legitimate.

You're right it isn't a hostile in itself, but it is an act of hostility. Everyone knew Havoc/MA would fight and Sanc decides to aid their allies after screwing them over by robbing them. Havoc can only blame their allies Sanc that their notice turned void because Sanc simply pissed off MA and gave them a valid reason to wave (IMO)

[Elldallan]

Mom made it quite clear they were going "full dick" when they gave Rage notice right OOW, then refused to ceasefire for anything less than multiple free waves and an eoa nap. So, obviously, a clause of this type would not work with them.

When trying to compete against Abs there is no alternative but going "full dick" as you call it because everyone knows abs would do it if situation was reversed. Besides you notice Elit's kd just prior to war so you could hope to vulture them right out of eowcf and you have the stomach to whine about Elit noticing Rage AFTER eowcf? you're hilarious Proteus.

MA obviously wants to crown so have to take cheap shots wherever you can because ABS already has a 4v1 advantage and you can be damn sure Abs will milk that advantage for whatever it's worth and if Rage didn't like the alternative they could always have warred.

When you're playing as an alliance everyone will always take your low water marks as assumed default play regardless of whether it was revenge move or not, no one really cares what your reason for the action was only that it was a ****ty lame ass action.
Because you will always come up with some reason to play as nasty as possible whenever it benefits you.

[protector]

It is not possible to define "a hostile", any more than it is possible to make a full set of clauses to prevent all dirty play in ceasefires. And in many situations both sides won't agree on what is fair anyway.

The only clause I'll really agree to is "don't be a dick", and this clause itself can only be made with someone you trust not to redefine the term "being a dick" on the fly. Things that qualify as being a dick:

* Noticing a kingdom while they're in war/hostile (always prevented by "no notice in hostile/war" clauses - NNIHW - now).
* Noticing/waving a kingdom right after they leave a war (this depends on current rules - the past few ages you could explore a bit in postwar so a notice right after war wouldn't be dickish).
* Noticing a kingdom right before they enter another war/hostile (a sometimes-popular way to get around NNIHW clauses).
* Robbing, waving, razing a kingdom not in your range (generally, declare range) to an excessive degree or to hurt them without benefiting yourself. (Raze waving a bigger or smaller kingdom just to hurt them would qualify, for instance. Robbing a kingdom a lot and refusing to ceasefire would qualify to a lesser degree, as would not settling for one free wave before ceasefiring.)

Mom made it quite clear they were going "full dick" when they gave Rage notice right OOW, then refused to ceasefire for anything less than multiple free waves and an eoa nap. So, obviously, a clause of this type would not work with them.

We got vultured by Rage after our Mercy war ;)
Hypocrisy much huh?

[protector]

Giving kd notice after EOW is a di** move. The reason we did it to BeastBlood/Pulse/Flogger was for revenge.

So because you think you have a valid reason to, it's no longer a dick move? Lol @ hypocrisy here ;p

[protector]

ASF, stop accusing Elit of hacking, you're just lowering your credibility. I was the one who authorized the logging in of your ex player's accounts and Elit has no knowledge of it. Bishop can verify this as admin, and I'm positive you know the real story behind it. There's no need to smear Elit to drive your propaganda here.

No matter what anyone says, Elit will never hear the end of it. ASF brings it up every time he's involved in a discussion with Elit over something.

[Elit]

Update. Both kds killed his dragons, AMA made it first. Now sanctuary are in fort stance and we just made another wave. Sanctuary retal hard too !


** Kingdom news report **
For the time from February 3 of YR8 till March 14 of YR8 - 36 hours
[ http://home-world.org/utopia/formatter/ - Seraphim online formatter ]


** Summary **
Total attacks made: 40 (23,161 acres)
-- Traditional march: 37 (21,231 acres)
-- Ambush: 2 (1,930 acres)
-- Plunder: 1
-- Uniques: 12
Total attacks suffered: 31 (24,382 acres)
-- Traditional march: 29 (23,953 acres)
-- Ambush: 2 (429 acres)
-- Uniques: 23

** The kingdom of AMA **
Total land exchanged: -1,221 (40/31)
+12,656 An unknown province (27/0)
+440 Dont put that in your mouth (1 [1]/0)
-175 Stop being lazy (2 [2]/1)
-294 Clean Your Room (0/1)
-408 Dont play in puddles (0/1)
-536 Youll go blind doing that (0/1)
-637 Do it right the first time (1 [1]/3)
-656 Get married I want grandkids (2 [2]/3)
-729 Dont Drive Too Fast (0/1)
-976 Get off the couch an get a Job (0/2)
-1,067 Drink as much as you can (3 [2]/2)
-1,333 Dont end up like your Father (1 [1]/3)
-1,337 Dont forget to use a condom (0/3)
-1,904 You Are Doing It Wrong (0/4)
-2,111 Incest Is Best (1 [1]/3)
-2,154 Use your brain (2 [2]/3)


** The kingdom of Sanctuary **
Total land exchanged: +1,221 (31/40)
+3,029 Rattata (2 [2]/1)
+1,120 Jynx (3 [2]/1)
+1,051 Zapdos (1 [1]/0)
+984 Jolteon (3 [2]/1)
+976 An unknown province (2/0)
+482 Moltres (3 [2]/2)
+73 Golem (3 [2]/2)
+68 Kadabra (2 [2]/3)
-106 Snorlax (1 [1]/2)
-342 Rapidash (1 [1]/2)
-438 Caterpie (2 [1]/2)
-562 Poliwrath (1 [1]/2)
-627 Seel (0/2)
-768 Weedle (1 [1]/4)
-783 Dragonite (3 [2]/6)
-835 Muk (0/1)
-977 Vulpix (0/2)
-1,124 Magikarp (3 [3]/7)

[guard14n]

Ok mates WTH ? We all know abs is doing this to powerplay AMA. We all know they are 4vs1. We all know they have no honor of what so frickin ever. We all know they are playing dirty and its in fact 25vs100 situation. The thing that i dont get is how the hell is Bishop letting this happen. Its cuz of Abs that utopia is not such a vast comunity anymore. Its cuz of this gameplay... this dirty, retarded. no-honor dic*y little gameplay that they always did. Do u remember how many people there was back in the day? Compare it with people in Utopia now! All of them left cuz of this... When Mehul was in charge and there were no invitations did abs existed - YES ! They traded acc's, hacked, cheated, x-logged and all kind of sh*t to make their kds be first. This havent change today its just easier to do it. Abs has been, is and will always be the weak link in this game and the reason the game is dying.


As for the conflict - AMA r kinda right here. If u steal from me i will hit ya. U are just trying to 2v1 them... and im sure that if for some reason u start losing the 2v1 there will be some "valid" for u reason to get Rage and Mercy into this conflict. Its just who u are .... As*holes ! :)

[Lykron]

Ok mates WTH ? We all know abs is doing this to powerplay AMA. We all know they are 4vs1. We all know they have no honor of what so frickin ever. We all know they are playing dirty and its in fact 25vs100 situation. The thing that i dont get is how the hell is Bishop letting this happen. Its cuz of Abs that utopia is not such a vast comunity anymore. Its cuz of this gameplay... this dirty, retarded. no-honor dic*y little gameplay that they always did. Do u remember how many people there was back in the day? Compare it with people in Utopia now! All of them left cuz of this... When Mehul was in charge and there were no invitations did abs existed - YES ! They traded acc's, hacked, cheated, x-logged and all kind of sh*t to make their kds be first. This havent change today its just easier to do it. Abs has been, is and will always be the weak link in this game and the reason the game is dying.


As for the conflict - AMA r kinda right here. If u steal from me i will hit ya. U are just trying to 2v1 them... and im sure that if for some reason u start losing the 2v1 there will be some "valid" for u reason to get Rage and Mercy into this conflict. Its just who u are .... As*holes ! :)

why you mad bro ?

abs is 4vs 1 against AMA cus AMA's alliance was weaker and kd's like beastblood, simians, exnihilo were farmed early age and taken out of the top race. it's cute to blame the downfall of utopia on abs but the truth is that most people in the game don't really care about top 10.

this thread is just the usual whining and smoke screens that top kds do in order to project a better image and win the community support so they can do more BS moves in the future, like: Elit's kd targetsharing havoc cows to be robbed during their pump , sanctuary robbing gc from their allies, etc.
there are some nices strategic moves here: for eg Elit claims that his cow "forgot" to train thieves, but he doesn't say why he had 0 in the first place. obviously AMA's cow released all his thieves in eow to fix the halfers trade balance to prepare them for exploring. since they were going to explore provinces up it is clear they had no intention to fight havoc and were looking for a pretext to make Havoc's notice look invalid: hence the ridiculous claim that until they weren't willing to cf sanc they couldn't be noticed.
when indeed they got the notice from Havoc they pulled a Simians: they waved another kd to claim an active hostile and to be able to explore up their provs, while asking here in forums that they don't be hit. that didn't work for Simians so we will see how good it will work for AMA.