AMA vs sanct round 2

[Korp]

The fact that it's Abs is entirely irrelevant, you guys just want to introduce a double standard against them for something that would be entirely ok for any other two kingdoms. If Simians robbed Sanc of 100m gc then AMA noticed them, you guys would make the exact same comments I'm making, so stop with the hypocrisy lol.



AMA knew Havoc could give notice, AMA didn't get a CF with Sanc, AMA had undefended gc. Why would it be acceptable for every other kingdom on the server except Abs to steal that gc? That's the dumbest logic possible.

But you should realize yourself that Absalom needs to watch themselves more carefully with these kind of things than other kingdoms. It wouldnt be okey for two kingdoms that are allies to do this either. If it was two kingdoms that totally independent of eachother that would been a different matter. (So not just wrong by Absalom any two kingdoms which are allied)

[Soul_Hunter]

AMA knew they are gonna get noticed, AMA didnt get a cf, AMA had undefended gcs. You are right. Also Sanctuary knew about the notice, Sanctuary didnt ask for CF and Sanctuary did rob that gold. So everything leads to the situation now. It is all ok and understandable :). Still i don't see how you would justify Havoc hitting into this. Both kds did mistake in not getting a cf, and they both lost from the situation. That's a fact. Now Havoc can just war HoH and win the age ;)

[DHaran]

But you should realize yourself that Absalom needs to watch themselves more carefully with these kind of things than other kingdoms. It wouldnt be okey for two kingdoms that are allies to do this either. If it was two kingdoms that totally independent of eachother that would been a different matter. (So not just wrong by Absalom any two kingdoms which are allied)

I disagree. There are plenty of non-allied kds who just don't like Abs who would do the same thing to Sanc if the opportunity arose. Not CFing Sanc is as nubish a mistake as AMA could have made, I find no fault in anything that happened afterwards because everything was within CF terms with Havoc, and there was no double hostile activities. Sanc doesn't control Havoc, and Havoc doesn't control Sanc, AMA knows this and should have treated them appropriately when doing diplo, instead they screwed themselves.

AMA knew they are gonna get noticed, AMA didnt get a cf, AMA had undefended gcs. You are right. Also Sanctuary knew about the notice, Sanctuary didnt ask for CF and Sanctuary did rob that gold. So everything leads to the situation now. It is all ok and understandable :). Still i don't see how you would justify Havoc hitting into this. Both kds did mistake in not getting a cf, and they both lost from the situation. That's a fact. Now Havoc can just war HoH and win the age ;)

I wouldn't try to justify it if Havoc hit into AMA now that there is an active hostile with Sanc. The notice clock is still running however, there was no hostile when it was given.

[Korp]

I disagree. There are plenty of non-allied kds who just don't like Abs who would do the same thing to Sanc if the opportunity arose. Not CFing Sanc is as nubish a mistake as AMA could have made, I find no fault in anything that happened afterwards because everything was within CF terms with Havoc, and there was no double hostile activities. Sanc doesn't control Havoc, and Havoc doesn't control Sanc, AMA knows this and should have treated them appropriately when doing diplo, instead they screwed themselves.

You disagree with allied kds should be more carefull what they are doing cause it might look more suspicious? Plus according to Sanc it was a active hostile as soon as they started opping AMA since jdorje himself consider opping being a active hostile.

[Elit]

I'm not sure for what you argue DHaran?
Sanctuary lost his war. Its dead clear if they rob/hit us we will wave them. Do you think notice from Havoc change it and we don't have right to wave sanctuary?
Hostile actions was started from Sanctuary and we respond to it. Now both kds are in active hostile again: Their Attitude To Us Hostile (61 points) Our Attitude To Them Hostile (72 points).

[DHaran]

You disagree with allied kds should be more carefull what they are doing cause it might look more suspicious? Plus according to Sanc it was a active hostile as soon as they started opping AMA since jdorje himself consider opping being a active hostile.

Oh, no I understand the need for being careful, that I agree with you. But I also wouldn't let some faulty public opinion keep me from doing something either, at least not something that any other kingdom doing would be ok. I didn't see where jdorje said robbing is hostile, I wouldn't agree with that either, or else I've been hostile all age lol.

I'm not sure for what you argue DHaran?
Sanctuary lost his war. Its dead clear if they rob/hit us we will wave them. Do you think notice from Havoc change it and we don't have right to wave sanctuary?
Hostile actions was started from Sanctuary and we respond to it. Now both kds are in active hostile again: Their Attitude To Us Hostile (61 points) Our Attitude To Them Hostile (72 points).

No, I think you had every right to wave them, just as they had every right to steal from you, and Havoc had every right to give notice.

[Fury]

No, I think you had every right to wave them, just as they had every right to steal from you, and Havoc had every right to give notice.

We agree, I dont think any of us have ever disagreed with this fact. All we want us to avoid being double hostiled.

But its also 100% clear sancs only reason for robbing us is weakning us for havoc.

[Persain]

AMA knew Havoc could give notice, AMA didn't get a CF with Sanc, AMA had undefended gc. Why would it be acceptable for every other kingdom on the server except Abs to steal that gc? That's the dumbest logic possible. AMA didn't get screwed, they screwed up, there's a difference. Why would goodz be angry with jdorje? AMA waved Sanc, that has nothing to do with Havoc. This whole conversation is just ridiculous, mostly by people with no basic reasoning ability.

First off when i said who got screwed i was referring to havoc...they are the ones screwed here. If i were goodz i'd be angry at jdorje because Havoc had a reasonably evenly matched 1v1 fight they were about to engage in w/a decent chance at winning. Now they either are going to not get that fight or be accused of only winning because it was 2v1 against AMA. Its super annoying to think that you could have fought and win, effectively crown only to get your chance pulled from you by an alliance member. Or at a minimum if/when you do get to fight have people claim it was only because u double teamed the kd you beat. (who here thinks the HoH farming out simians age was on par w/the dreams crown...its just an annoying way to win)

As to why it'd be acceptable for every other kd to steal the gold but sanc, when you form an alliance you set certain standards, ABS has stood for "fair" fights. If you want to uphold that standard the right thing to do is to speak w/your allies about waves/hits/stealing and not even appear to "bully' those that are weaker than you because u have 4 kds to their 1 kd. Either stick to those standards or dont claim your going to try to fight fair.



edit

No, I think you had every right to wave them, just as they had every right to steal from you, and Havoc had every right to give notice.

i actually agree here, every right to do it doesnt mean that I would do it though...and the reasoning is

Oh, no I understand the need for being careful, that I agree with you. But I also wouldn't let some faulty public opinion keep me from doing something either, at least not something that any other kingdom doing would be ok. I didn't see where jdorje said robbing is hostile, I wouldn't agree with that either, or else I've been hostile all age lol.

ABS gets accused of blocking/2v1 all sorts of dirty stuff all the time, its slowly catching up to them w/people like ELF & Mansoor if they want to not get screwed they have to take a hit now and again for appearances.

[Korp]

Oh, no I understand the need for being careful, that I agree with you. But I also wouldn't let some faulty public opinion keep me from doing something either, at least not something that any other kingdom doing would be ok. I didn't see where jdorje said robbing is hostile, I wouldn't agree with that either, or else I've been hostile all age lol.

Well, he told that to SPGC this age exactly that. When I played in TFC he claimed that we and Snakes I think double hostiled them cause TFC been opping them. Ie, we were opping them, Snakes waved them jdorje coming screaming Double hostile!! (Palem might wanna correct me though)

[Elldallan]

AMA should have waved Sanc.

AMA did wave sanct :P

[Elit]

What say Persain is very true. From all this story most screwed is Havoc. They was preparing for this war almost all age. Sanctuary had his fair and clean 1vs1 war vs us and they loss it. Now we are again in hostile with Sanctuary. If Havoc hit us its clear double hostile, if its become war and they win no one will cont it for win if they loss will lock terrible bad. So they need to hold till hostile end and sit on high draft.

So far i send msg early on goodz if he don't plan to double us to not spend his resources to train up because hostile wont end soon, but he ignored my msg :)

[Lykron]

About havoc. They broke our deal terms atm. Our deal clear include they cant notice us before our hostile/war/post war end and we re-cf. So any hits from them before give proper notice will be treat for deal break.

btw you never answered this question: so now you've stopped claiming that havoc notice was a dealbreak ?

[DHaran]

I've never even heard of such a term. Elit, were you claiming Havoc couldn't notice AMA ever unless they re-CFed with Sanc post-war? I highly doubt anyone would ever accept such a ridiculous term. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant.

[Persain]

I've never even heard of such a term. Elit, were you claiming Havoc couldn't notice AMA ever unless they re-CFed with Sanc post-war? I highly doubt anyone would ever accept such a ridiculous term. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant.

hey i had terms w/kds last age that a cf couldn't be broken unless BOTH kds wanted to war and were w/in range to do so. Had multiple kds agree to it, HoH and Mercy included...so u never know what terms people would agree to.

[Elit]

btw you never answered this question: so now you've stopped claiming that havoc notice was a dealbreak ?

Our terms for send/get notice include re-cf (all hostile actions to end). Propose on it is to keep 1 hostile same time and you wont get waved instant after hostile end. Not CF with Sanctuary alone wont matter much if they didn't start hostile ops vs us. Its activated again active relation and Havoc send us notice in active relation. So notice breack spirit on deal for sure dont matter how you define it. there was posted logs (page 13) early with Goodz about our deal terms. You can see too how havoc agree to give us free hits for extend CF and we give up it. My comment was: <Elit> so hope you wont act in rturn lame too :P