AMA vs sanct round 2

[guard14n]

You're criticizing somebody for not using the English language properly and then abbreviating a three-letter word? That's what is wrong with your English. If you want to get your point across and have people give a crap about your opinion, you should present it in a way that doesn't make people want to slap you.

Dude it was a joke for Elit's famous English skills. If u are frustrated I abbreviating a word sorry about it :) Its still not my native tongue and i still speak 6 more xpt English (AND YES I SAY XPT INSTEAD OF EXCEPT!!!). Sorry about insulting ur feelings with my short words :((

[AquaSeaFoam]

I don't disagree Palem. (other than some of the incorrect parts about havoc wanting to pump up another bank or whatever.)

Edit:
One other thing to add. While I agree Sanc robbing some gold from Elit was dumb, I think that was mainly a convienient way for Elit to justify dodging havoc but I think his actions would have been exactly the same even if Sanc didn't rob anything. That was the whole reason he never cf'd sanc when he knew havoc was noticing him. Also, if say Rage were to get notice from someone and then got robbed some (perhaps by TFC or SPGC or whoever else), and say Rage didn't want to fight the kingdom who noticed them, would you also accept that it was perfectly justified for Rage to instead wave TFC or whoever to dodge the notice? We've been noticed a lot and almost every single notice we've gotten robbed by someone. Should it really be that easy to always have a valid way to dodge the notice?

I believe that Elit waved sanc within minutes of getting some gc stolen by a couple sanc provinces, so it's not like it was some massive thievery operation over days/weeks time. He could have simply asked Sanc to cf right then or he could have during his post war cf when havoc said they'd notice asap, or at any time. Instead his plan was always to use sanc as an excuse to dodge Havoc's notice and use their pool.

[Palem]

I thought they snuck in one more small'ish bank while Sanc and MA were exchanging? If not...meh

[Elldallan]

As we all know, there is an unwritten code of honor in the game that has been established, in part at Absalom's promotion of it, to let kingdoms fight fair 1v1 fights. There is nothing about this in the rules and the game initially actually didn't even have any protections or mechanisms to even discourage "non 1v1 play" but these were put in with time mainly at the request of players.

It has never been my belief that "honorable play" was intended to allow kingdoms to dodge such 1v1 fights yet over time this has frequently been exactly the case. Early ages you'd have to be an idiot to wave some other kingdom when you knew another was about to wave you. You would only expose yourself to the one about to wave and receive no protections at all.

After it became widely accepted to let kingdoms fight 1v1, many kingdoms realized "Hey, that kingdom over there that might beat us says they are about to wave us. Let's quick wave some other kingdom and tell them that they are dishonorable if they wave us like they said they were about to."

This was then extended into, "Let's also say we'll never cf the smaller kingdom we waved so that no one can ever wave us without being called dishonorable! We can even explore and pump while having imaginary protection form anyone touching us that we didn't choose ourselves to wave!"

If this mentality is never broken, kingdoms can be impossible for anyone to ever wave all age. A kingdom could keep a semi active ghetto hostile up all age, or simply get notice deals in place and then just initiate said hostile whenever notice is recieved and refuse to ever end it unless they get new notice deals. You can also go straight from one hostile to another, always choosing who you wave and ensuring they are an easy match. No kingdom can ever initiate with you.

1v1 play was never intended to be a means to dodge fair fights and without kingdoms sometimes following through and waving as they said they would, then kingdoms will continue to keep waving someone else whenever they get notice by a kingdom they didn't want to fight. Certainly a line has to be drawn somewhere on this behavior even if you might not agree that this was an appropriate place to draw the line. Havoc felt it was and in this case that is where the decision rested.

If Sanct had not decided to go and piss MA off I would have agreed with you that MA didn't have any legitimate reason to avoid Havoc but when an alliance mate decides to interfere with their preparation that is clearly NOT 1v1 and MA can be expected to respond to that provocation, this is not dodging, Sanct initiated a legitimate conflict with MA when they stole from them regardless of how much smaller sanct was, any move by Havoc other than reinstating the original notice is not 1v1 and a blatant attempt by Abs to bully MA because you know that Havoc could not possibly hope to beat MA 1v1, Rage might have been able to do it late age when they're whored their sage bonus properly but no other Abs kd obviously has a chance in a fair fight.

Sanct went after MA again and MA responded as anyone could have predicted they would so MA and Sanct trades hits, dragons and ops for 48h and then both sides stops attacks for a mere 12 hours(but not ops) because Sancts notice with pewpew is running out and MA's notice with Havoc is running out, this does not magically mean it's not a hostile any more as you amongst others have claimed before when you say that hostile is defined by the prescence of a button or the word hostile on target kd's kd page. So by ANY sane definition MA and Sanct was still in a hostile and Havoc and pewpew decided to intervene, Sanct brought that upon themselves when they antagonized MA despite knowing pewpew was coming so maybe it was Sanct trying to run from pewpew and not MA running from HAvoc like you're trying to claim and failing.

There is no evidence or indication that MA was running from Havoc, Sanct antagonized MA and should have expected a result. This could be interpreted as Sanct running from pewpew but thats unlikely since MA would hand Sancts ass to them in a way pewpew could never have don(no insult intended to pewpew). Mor likely is that Havoc knows they can't possibly hope to win against MA in a fair 1v1 fight, after all MA just handily beat Sanct without barely breaking a sweat and Sanct had by far the best war setup so the result of a fair Havoc vs MA war was already a given.

[Palem]

Let's be clear, if anyone has cost MA a crown, it's Elit, not abs.

[Elit]

No, you're mistaken on that. Elit thought that this was the case at first, but when the logs were examined it was not the case and the notice was valid.

No notice is not valid, i just gave up because was clear you wont accept it.
Age 50, Rage gave us notice 2h before our war with Fury. Its don't break deal rules but its against spirit on deal. This age only kd not include in our deal terms: no notice in war/post war was rage. If situation was reversed i can bet there will be notice from Rage right in our war because its not against our deal rules, but i hold till you end your war/post war and gave it. Do you see difference? You need to have self respect and don't cross line. Sure Our notice catch range un prepared but was fair and 1vs1.

If sanctuary proposed CF with AMA and Havoc send notice same time all will be legit and fair. If havoc didn't wave us in active hostile all will be acceptable too. But what you did was extremely lame.

Let's be clear, if anyone has cost MA a crown, it's Elit, not abs.

Lets be clear: if AMA win crown its thanks to ABS :P

[Korp]

Logic tells you to train thieves if you don't want gc stolen

Man did you just shoot yourself in the foot. Hahaha, next time you guys come crying i shall just refer to this messages. (With you i ofc mean your current kingdom)

[Korp]

Let's be clear, if anyone has cost MA a crown, it's Elit, not abs.

Why?

[XroW]

Edit:
One other thing to add. While I agree Sanc robbing some gold from Elit was dumb, I think that was mainly a convienient way for Elit to justify dodging havoc but I think his actions would have been exactly the same even if Sanc didn't rob anything.

Can someone please make a bet with Proteus so we dont have to read more of ASFs bull..
The fact is, as stated it was "dumb" to rob AMA, rest is a story you have created for yourself.

[Elit]

Can someone please make a bet with Proteus so we dont have to read more of ASFs bull..
The fact is, as stated it was "dumb" to rob AMA, rest is a story you have created for yourself.

Yes lets stick to facts and less propaganda. What you guess/suspect and what we are going to do its complete different.

[Palem]

Instead his plan was always to use sanc as an excuse to dodge Havoc's notice and use their pool.

I agree, but if Sanc doesn't retal and leave them for Havoc, there's nothing MA can do or complain about. The only thing Sanc could gain from retaling (other than acres, which makes the move even more dumb) is stalling to give Havoc more time.

Lets be clear: if AMA win crown its thanks to ABS :P

I hope you do crown, but if you don't it's not because of anything dirty Abs has done. You've handled the situation poorly imo.

[DHaran]

ASF, you speak very well, but the notion that #1 waving #5 is not a real hostile is just ****ing stupid. Havoc gave a legit notice, all Sanc had to do was offer a CF and say they wanted AMA to move on. Only then would there be justification for hitting into an open button situation after a bit of time passed. What Abs did was a blatant and unjustified double hostile. Your notice doesn't dictate who other kingdoms can and can't wave for hostile.

[Korp]

I don't disagree Palem. (other than some of the incorrect parts about havoc wanting to pump up another bank or whatever.)

Edit:
One other thing to add. While I agree Sanc robbing some gold from Elit was dumb, I think that was mainly a convienient way for Elit to justify dodging havoc but I think his actions would have been exactly the same even if Sanc didn't rob anything. That was the whole reason he never cf'd sanc when he knew havoc was noticing him. Also, if say Rage were to get notice from someone and then got robbed some (perhaps by TFC or SPGC or whoever else), and say Rage didn't want to fight the kingdom who noticed them, would you also accept that it was perfectly justified for Rage to instead wave TFC or whoever to dodge the notice? We've been noticed a lot and almost every single notice we've gotten robbed by someone. Should it really be that easy to always have a valid way to dodge the notice?

I believe that Elit waved sanc within minutes of getting some gc stolen by a couple sanc provinces, so it's not like it was some massive thievery operation over days/weeks time. He could have simply asked Sanc to cf right then or he could have during his post war cf when havoc said they'd notice asap, or at any time. Instead his plan was always to use sanc as an excuse to dodge Havoc's notice and use their pool.

Yes, Elit controls Sanctuary and made the rob him so he could have a convient excuse to avoid Havoc, damn Elits evil masterplan is all in vain now :( Tell me this, if Sanc was soo keen on this Cf as you been claiming in these threads why did they decide to steal gold from AMA then? But "someone" isnt a close ally with the kingdom that just noticed you see the difference? But I guess its okey since its Absalom and Absalom never do any bad things ;)

But why did Sanc steal gold from them? All you been spewing out in this thread is that they wanted a CF. So his plan was to make Sanc steal gold from them so he could run away from Havoc? Man the more you post the more delusional you get.

[American Badass]

44 pages and the same comments going back and forth... lol

[AquaSeaFoam]

I'm not trying to say this was one sided and Abs was completely in the right and Elit completely in the wrong. I'm just saying that things would have been much less complicated if Elit just cf'd sanc in post war when Havoc warned him they would notice once he was out of post war. Instead he mistakenly thought that not cfing them would prevent Havoc from giving a valid notice and that led to problems for all.