The ultimate strategy thread

[protector]

question.
for someone thats been arround the game since glory days of AV, but never used irc or actually took active part in anything above top 10, NOTICE, what does it actually mean, and what is concidered a notice.
havent bothered to ask before cause of the obvious troll food this question supplies, but....still curious to know..

Notice is sometimes part of a CF agreement. It is pretty much just an announcement to end a cease fire between 2 kingdoms.
When KD A and KD B agree to CF until January 1st YR2 + 72h notice, either of these kingdoms may give the other kingdom their notice on or after January 1st YR2. If KD A notices KD B on January 1st YR2, their cease fire may be broken as of April 1st YR2.

[likethesilver]

what would be the ideal bpa spread for an avian cleric at 1000bpa?

[flogger]

what would be the ideal bpa spread for an avian cleric at 1000bpa?

Avian has a good amount of free buildspace, so I would prolly try and run them as A/T. In a pure war kd?

75 BPA income
50 BPA tools
250 BPA pop
50 BPA food
250 BPA gains
100 BPA magic
225 BPA thief

Seems about right. Can always adjust 25-50 of that one way or another.

The other way to play it would be to allow it to maintain really high wages even with low pez, and you would take focus from thief and go for income sci.

[Persain]

The other way to play it would be to allow it to maintain really high wages even with low pez, and you would take focus from thief and go for income sci.

An even other way is to go suboptimal but max the crap out gains science. Think 500+ bpa in gains science. Has to be done KD wide though. For 99% of kds out there they wont do a sot/survey & sos of the entire kd and realize that runing GS against those avains is useless.

[flogger]

An even other way is to go suboptimal but max the crap out gains science. Think 500+ bpa in gains science. Has to be done KD wide though. For 99% of kds out there they wont do a sot/survey & sos of the entire kd and realize that runing GS against those avains is useless.

I always thought if a kingdom had huge gains sci GS's were even more important.

[Persain]

Flogger usually yes. Theres 2-3 factors that go into it though. #'s 1-2 mostly apply to Avains and its really all the reason you need, not every kd is fighting at your level. However #3 may be the single best reason to max gains science and is really only obvious for late age or mid age orcs.

First:
Besides VERY top kds who have days to plan for wars the average war kd is going to be running 10-15% GS, and wont really do full SOS intell to see that oh **** i need 25% GS or they are gonna chain me really hard really fast. Its a hidden power that can bait a kd into thinking your weaker than you are because your mod #'s are kinda low.

Second:
even if they do grab intell that buys you an econ advantage as they wont already have those buildings, they may stall for war while they switch builds but they are burning gold and you're hitting them,if done correctly gives you an advantage.

Third:

A concept that super difficult to grasp but i find it easiest to explain on an orc (from last age since this is when i calculated so u dont have that 30% less science). Consider kd with a few 2500 acre orcs at the start of war. They had 500 bpa for +31% gains and the passive 30% gains bonus they got it meant that they hit you for 16.9% of your land. Adding GS does lower that number, however GS dont lower the 20% gains cap, they just modify gains.

So if a chain is spread out over 4-5 hours those first few hits take a bit less land but a unless your against a kd that sold aids the second before a tick (NS chain targets is op as @!$#) the targets def will leave a little each tick. Now a few hours later you can use your chained orc hits them to finish. He should be able to quad tap as def has deserted, and hes hitting from 500 acres. That 500 acre orc started war with 500 bpa, but now hes on 2500 bpa. Hes hitting you for 191% gains or 22.92% of your land.

Now the way Gains work is lets say your running enough GS to have 20% reduced gains which is a reasonable assumption given incoming land, crap BE.... This means he hits your for 18.4% of your land. A lot of your GS got wasted, In fact the more GS you invest the more land you dedicated to that instead of say banks/towers/WT....it means that unless you are a MUST CHAIN NOW, i have more options for who i shell in your kd and you have less overall resources to deal with. Now even if you were someone i had to chain what happened was you were running like 20% GS for a 1.6% reduction on land lost.

Now you might argue that sure but your ignoring the opening hits to the chain. And yes, yes i am. Thats because if you dont chain all in 1 hour the target lost some def, then end up on a LARGER size and i can now use 2 chained attackers to finish you. 1 max gain hit and 6 taps takes you deeper and keeps more incoming land into my chained people than the typical kd that uses a quad tap to finish you off. Sure im not quite as effective on a per/hit basis but im keeping my own chains safer and takeing you deeper than i otherwise could safely. Add that to the fact that if you want to ambush and get as much incoming land asap my initial hits gave me less land so it may not even be worth it to annon all my hits.

I mean i've taken you so deep what do i care if you bounce back post chain hits of 500 acres or even 1000 acres the damage was already done in the chain. And if you can even conceptually buy into the who cares how much land you have incoming think about it this way: in some cases if i'm able to time things right i can just say screw it no annon. Since you have GS i end up taking as much land as i would have had you run no GS and i thought it worthwhile to annon my hits.


:D Cheers.
Not sure if #3 will sink in and theirs arguments to be made against it but its not a 100% wrong concept.

[likethesilver]

Anyone know the top and bottom feeding formulas?

[Persain]

http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...g#Attack_Gains

via that formula, KNF=1 while at war. PNF*GBP= max( PNF*GBP,0.8) while at war.

[Spahrep]

In and of itself, an elf mage attacker doesn't exist 1 on 1. To cast MS you need to have 3x their mod WPA, which is hard to do and keep up with miltary units. If you want to run elf mage attackers, have your kingdom run 15-18 of them so you don't have to "protect" yourself and complimented by halfer rogues to AW before nightmaring.

As for the build, WTs is probably right, you'll need way more towers ((Land*.68)+680)*2.6 is your rune cost for MS, to cast 1-2 every tick is very difficult, and you need to be large sizes.

The rest of the build all seems right, although at larger sizes most people find a way to skip banks in their war build.

Is this a rule of thumb, or is that the minimum WPA difference needed to land MS.

Looking for a good build & pump strat for Faery Mystic joining a KD with no mystics but all hybrids and Attackers at this stage in the age.

[Persain]

thats a rule of thumb so u dont fail alot, i just casted MS on a feary who the same mod wpa i have. Took 4 tries.

[LightWolf]

First war the enemy kd started a dragon and never send and didn't slay dragons, one flew away find some action else where. Second war enemy kd starts a dragon and after 36 hours still no sign of it but they did slay first dragon, only took 20 odd hours to slay. Flogger can you explain this new war method of using dragons?

[LightWolf]

Both kds had enough specs to slay in 3 times over and still have good def btw.

[ofgortens]

flogger:

Question regarding intel gathering. When you are going to be chaining down a halfer or another TM, it becomes increasingly difficult to get an SoM, whereas, an SoT is much easier to get. Many state you can use an old SoM with a new SoT to calculate what they have home by subtracting away the armies out... but I cannot see how they can consider tell if TW is factored into the SoT or not which would throw off the defense calculated.

i.e. Taking an SoT would give you the overall defense and be able to calculate a DME based off the units and def... but if TW is on, that DME calculated from SoT would not be correct. How does one calculate accurate defense home with TW provinces (the above DME calculation works fine for any race taht doesnt have TW as an option) with a new SoT + old SoM.

I've checked Angel calculator and done my own calcs on halfers that have TW on first by using new SoT + old SoM and after getting the calculated values I have a halfer take his SoM where the value is not very accurate. Any ideas? Or are we stuck with having to get SoM's updated all the time when chaining down provinces with TW :/

[skoyl12]

You are overthinking things :)
SoT shows total defence and if you get an SoM you can calculate how much defense is out. (its raw numbers multiplied by def efficiency -> [4*elites+2*solds]*def. efficiency) for halfer (def eff. is on SoM)
The last number is stable so after each attack you can get a new sot and deduct that number.
Or if you are even lazier you can deduct Defense shown on first SoT from def shown on first SoM and have the same stable number.

[ofgortens]

You are overthinking things :)
SoT shows total defence and if you get an SoM you can calculate how much defense is out. (its raw numbers multiplied by def efficiency -> [4*elites+2*solds]*def. efficiency) for halfer (def eff. is on SoM)
The last number is stable so after each attack you can get a new sot and deduct that number.
Or if you are even lazier you can deduct Defense shown on first SoT from def shown on first SoM and have the same stable number.

Eh I dont think we are talking about the same thing here. Your way would not work with what I'm asking. If we are chaining a halfer... his DME changes as he is hit (goes up) so you can't take the DME off the SoM that is old as it is not true anymore. I can gather the correct amount of elites/soldiers/d specs by taking the new SoT and subtracting out troops away from old SoM... that still doesnt give you a way to calculate accurate defense home.

New SoT will give you a calculated DME (through Angel or some other tool or hand calc), but that DME is just taking into account (total defense) / [(elites*4)+(soldiers*2)+(d spec*4)] so if they have TW on... that DME will be off so you can't just take the amount of defense home * calculated DME.

I wouldn't be needing to take an SoT if I can get their SoM since it's 100% accurate anyways... My scenario is that a halfer sends army out, you grab an SoM early on and then pursue to chain him down (so he will have some crazy tpa like 15-20 raw tpa as being chained). There is no chance you can grab a new SoM to see his updated DME/defense... so you grab an easier SoT but need to use the old SoM to calculate his defense home now.