Cradle of Civilisation - Whites and Blacks

[Bishop]

I'm going to IP ban you if you make any more accounts. Use one and stick to it.

[Shaun]

I was not aware that multiple Forum accounts are against the rules.

If the mods are trying to lessen and keep low the number of Forum users then congratulate yourselves as it is working.

[Bishop]

Now you are aware. Quit acting the smartass, thanks.

[Shaun]

According to Palem its not against the rules to have multiple forum accounts. But NM

[goodz]

I beleive in evolution and the big bang theory, i beleive that Africa was the cradle of civilisation and that humanity spread out across the earth from there.

In Africa there is much ferocity between whites and blacks, caucasians and africans. Many black africans do not beleive that whites have a right to live in 'their country'. After the slave raids and the boer war i can understand their defensiveness regarding this. However i beleive people have a right to live in whichever country they choose.

Many africans travel to England and Europe in search of a safer existence, and they too find that many of the English and European whites do not beleive they have a right to be there. Africans that move to England find themselves confronted by neo nazis, voicing opinions of immigrants in 'their' country that are stealing work.

What are people's thoughts? Do whites have the right to live in Africa? Do blacks have the right to live in England?

I live in Australia and here there are quite a few similarities. I was born in western australia and i have never once been over seas, every single nano-second of my life has been in australia and yet because i am white i will never be seen as native. It is all due to skin colour which i think is foolish.

Aboriginals seem to beleive that Australia is 'theirs'.

African's seem to beleive that Africa is 'theirs'.

Europeans seem to beleive that Europe is 'theirs'

Does it matter what a person's skin colour is, or what their ethnicity is? What are people's thoughts?

Europeans and asians born or living in Australia seem to 'step on the toes' of the Aboriginals simply for being here. Europeans born or living in Africa apparently 'step on the toes' of Africans and black's born or living in England and Europe seem to 'step on the toes' of whites.

I have heard the saying ' everyone should just go back where they came from' a few times in my life, mostly by drunk aboriginals late at night :-)

If people did indeed go back 'where they came from' wouldn't we all live in Africa anyway?

And i was born here in Australia, so isn't this where i came from anyway?

This train of thought has been bubbling away in my mind for over a decade since my foolish teachers tried to teach me about 'sorry day' to the aboriginals. :-) yes i am so so so sorry that two hundred years ago somebody none of us knew shot somebody else that none of us knew - that is totally my fault - not! Apparently white people aren't even allowed to go to Ayer's Rock anymore, and we aren't even supposed to call it Ayer's Rock, apparently it is Uluru. Bugger that, i have always wanted to go to Ayer's Rock and if i am ever driving past (albeit not very likely) i am damn sure taking a tour - spear weilding aboriginals or not :-)

Should white people all live in Europe? Should asians all live in Asia? Should black people all live in Africa and the islands?

In my opinion it is horrendously stupid to beleive that they should. All people descended from the same 'tribe' and our skins have only changed because of the parts of the world our ancestors travelled to.

I think black people should be allowed to walk the streets of england and russia without being gangbashed by bald and angry white men (skinheads) and likewise i beleive that white people should be allowed to live in africa without being decapitated and set on fire. I beleive the entire earth is our home for everyone, regardless of skin colour.

Thoughts? Opinions?

You should learn more of your history. Animosity probably exists because Australia had terrible policy until midway through the 20th century. It is still considered to be a pretty racist country.

Based on a movie I watched that I forget and not any facts australian aboriginals from who knows how long ago until the 1970's were taken from their families and raped / denied education. In a government effort to make the country more white. It is a wonder they dislike you, many from that generation still live. Pretty much every white australian I have met hates the aboriginal people of australia. So meh! Its no wonder they dont like you there.

[Shaun]

I was born in 86 dude.

[Shaun]

Oh and there are riddles waiting for you in general talk.

[The Moon]

Since we all descended from Africans, could we all go to Africa and claim native title?

[makeo]

Personally, I've found England to be more multi-cultural than portrayed here.

The attitudes posited reflect that more of my grandfathers generation/slightly my fathers.
Although there is right wing middle class media that perpetuates it as well.

By 2120-30, when the baby boomers gen. is over, and they all largely dead, I would consider immigrants to the UK as being way more racist than the UK itself.

It's quite amusing, as an Irishman.To be told that English culture is crap by other European immigrants to the UK who are seeking to "educate" me, when we chose to live there for the economic benefits, and they're the racist ones. :p

Especially when they seek to perceive racism on them, while doling it out to others under the heading of "national pride in my culture".
My opinion is people should live where they choose, and believe in that. If you are doing it just for money, but hold the place in contempt, there's something wrong

[makeo]

Oh, and on a side point as every Euro has f'ed a neanderthal in their genetic past, we gave up native rights. :p

Could have been worse, she might have been from Kilkenny.

[Hurlin]

You should learn more of your history. Animosity probably exists because Australia had terrible policy until midway through the 20th century. It is still considered to be a pretty racist country.

Based on a movie I watched that I forget and not any facts australian aboriginals from who knows how long ago until the 1970's were taken from their families and raped / denied education. In a government effort to make the country more white. It is a wonder they dislike you, many from that generation still live. Pretty much every white australian I have met hates the aboriginal people of australia. So meh! Its no wonder they dont like you there.

We won the war suck it up

[Tapout]

Panspermia, live anywhere you like in the entire universe.

[himmlersberg]

Whites in Australia step on the toes of the natives not for being white but because of the whole history of wiping out native australians and taking their land and all. It is also terribly revisionist to pretend racism against aboriginal and the genocide against them was 200 years ago when the whole residential schoolings aimed at ehtnically cleansing aboriginals ended in most of our life times. aS for white people all living in Europe, I'm not even sure if that is where white people originating from. The problem is not with skin color per say, it is the actions of some white people in the past and how many of us benefit from those actions.

My personal opinion is new world countries like America, Australia, Canada etc should just be divided equally amongst the whites blacks, latinos and native indians and allow another nation for the integrationist fools to breed themselves out of existence in. As for the old world countries it will depend, some like africa or china we know who the people were in them 2-3 thousands years ago. Other ones like Europe will be more complex, probably just best to divide it up between the whites and nonwhites or maybe us whites should just take back central asia after all it was stolen from us by the east asians. I'd have no problem leaving europe to the blacks if all of the central asians east asians left and allowed the whites to come back.

[himmlersberg]

I have read it all and I can say some things, there will not be equality while people claim they need special treatment for looking different.
Cultural awareness days, every culture cept the main culture.
More funding given to certain groups of people, based solely on the colour of their skin.
Racial quotas in Universities. When a minority religion can have another religions beliefs banned in public then they have more rights.
Our societies in the 'west' are the opposite of what people are claiming we are. We no longer have active discrimination of minorities, instead, if you are not a minority you
do not have as many rights, we now live in a world of reverse discrimination, you are discriminated against because it's perceived that you are more capable because you
are part of the main ethnic group in the country you live in.
In Australia, the Aboriginals received government income support (Study benefits) that is more than everyone else, just because they call themselves Aboriginal.
Other Australian : $402.7 p/f Aboriginal: $486.70. if another Australian studies for a Masters Degree, they receive no income support, if an Aboriginal does, they get $907 p/f($23,582p/a)

That's reverse discrimination, nobody should receive more than another just because they belong to a different group of people.
By giving minority groups more for being different, you are stating they cannot be equal without extra support, now that's racist.
Simple fix, remove all advantages given to certain groups for being different. If they are equal, then they won't need the extra help.

Its assumed you have an advantage being part of a colonial ethnic group because the colonial ethnic groups were the ones stealing resources and land from the natives. Lets be honest here, if white Australians had to pay for all the land to the aboriginals, most aboriginals would be millionaires today, there are less than 2 million australians. If white aussies had to pay for all that land at fair market price aboriginals would be rolling in money.

Now naturally your response will be I DIDN'T STEAL ANYTHING, I WASN'T ALIVE DURING COLONIALISM WHY AM I BEING PUNISHED? Well how many white australians would be willing to give back all the benefits from colonialism they got? You ready to give back that 1000 acre farm your daddy gave you worth millions to aboriginals? You ready to give back all the land to the natives? I doubt it. The odds of an aboriginal just getting to a master degree is very low after all the discrimination and this is true for most the ethnic minorities in the colonized states.

Reverse discrimination would be let the aboriginals do everything the whites did to the aboriginals, for the last 400 years including the ethnic cleansing and taking white children from white parents to get the "Savage out the man" and retraining them to prevent them from speaking or knowing any white culture or language. None of us could really imagine that and for good reason

If you remove all the advantages for being certain groups, you going to anger alot of white people who benefitted from colonialism. Between the homestead act in America and the settlement of various nations in the new world, basically all whites who have been in these nations for 4-5 generations would end up landless if you
stripped away all their benefits and hand me downs.

[Tovarishch]

@Himmlersberg - though I agree with the general albeit unorthodox view concerning this, I'll disagree with you on your last paragraph. It's not as simple as that. I think I get the gist of what you said in the first sentence "If you remove all the advantages..." - whether you see it as a benefit or not, the world as we know it was founded on the principles of colonialism. Because of the extremities at which those principles have evolved and developed, and the resulting ideology that was created, the world would collapse in that hypothetical. It goes well beyond race as other cultures have also profited from colonialism, directly or otherwise.

@ everyone else:
Let's not marginalise Australia into "The Natives" and "The Whites". It is far more complicated.

The simple fact is: The Indigenous people of Australia will always resent the actions of the colonialists in days past because their community is still suffering from the repercussions - something which the government and it's citizens have an obligation to help resolve. This is one of the main reasons why there is a major gap in Australian society i.e. there is a disproportionate statistic of Indigenous persons on government assistance, in prison, with substance abuse etc to the rest of the populous.
This resentment has filtered it's way through the generations in such a way that it no longer discriminates but rather marginalises everyone who isn't Indigenous as "White". One could argue that it is culturally embedded. This is why the government is investing huge resources (or should be, Tony Abbott) into education to try and stem this and foster tolerance and cultural diversity in the up and coming generations.
You cannot blame them for feeling this way, and after some objective investigation, one tends to be of this opinion.

That being said, there are also many of that community who abuse the system and actively use the past for an inappropriate advantage, at the expense of their "white" counterparts. There are also many "whites" who are openly, blatantly racist and genuinely dismissive in their acclamation "We didn't do it, we weren't alive to cause the offence" toward them. You ask these people why they hold this opinion and 99% will tell you it's because they are fed up with being blamed. Of course there are many factors as to why an individual would dislike another, but this factor is a consistent variable across the general population. Then there are those, like myself who were born and raised over seas and have emigrated here, and are cast in with those would be colonialists. It is important for Aboriginals, Australians and immigrants alike to acknowledge each others history up to the present, learn from it and improve "today' so that future generations won't have to pay for the sins of the fathers.

However, in the past 10 years, there have been remarkable advances in reconciliation between the Indigenous people of Australia and the "white" Australians. Slowly the wall of racism if falling and the social gap is closing - something that this country needs to be able to secure a prosperous future.

In relation to the original post, I have to disagree and say that despite what science may have revealed about our origins, this shouldn't be an argument for cultural/racial ambiguity. Theoretically we could all live like that but realistically, and for a plethora of reasons, it would never work. Our race/culture/heritage is a major contributing factor to who we are individually, and not necessarily our origin of birth.
Australia traditionally is aboriginal country. It's why public speakers often acknowledge the "ancestral owners" of the land and rightly so.
In regards to the growing multiculturalism here and abroad: I'm all for it. However I believe that there is a very distinguishable limit to how far one can take it e.g:

'Australia Day' is celebrated on the 26 Feb annually by the majority here. There are those who have the express view that it as the day they were invaded. And then there are those who believe that 'Australia Day' is racist and discriminates on anyone who isn't "Australian" - nothing could be further from the truth; and there are those on the flip side who view it as the day that they should make all immigrants acutely aware that they weren't born here.
There are even those immigrants who believe it is their constitutional right to deny adherence to the law in favour for their own religious beliefs and/or traditions from there country of origin.
The point is: the is a major disconnect in the way people define the word "multiculturalism" and interpret it.
Presently, this day celebrates the diversity of culture in today's society and encompasses them all under the notion that we are all Australian. This in no way gives license to anyone to do as they please in how they treat cultural social boundaries (in reference to scorpio86's comments on Uluru/Ayer's Rock). If anything, Australia Day should reinforce the idea of multiculturalism insomuch that everyone living in Australia (legally) is "Australian" whether they were born here or not, whether they are first or fourth generation - Meaning: respect for the traditions and beliefs of those around you, and for the country your reside in.

A last retort to the widely accepted view "We didn't do it..." statement:
I've always been taught that in order for something to happen, sometimes you have to set the ball rolling. Far too long have the majority of Australians, though acknowledging the disasters of the past, feel that it is acceptable to just brush it under the carpet and wash their hands clean but in the same breath complain they are given unfair advantages, and that the Indigenous peoples are still hung up about it all and need to move on.
They need all the help they can get in rebuilding their community - decades of persecution, re-education or lack of education, and denial of basic humanitarian rights have certainly left their mark on these people. As a result, many (especially the older generations) are under qualified/lack any qualification, are illiterate, jobless and are subject to a sub-standard quality of life, but are rigorously judged to be "dole bludgers", "junkies" and "drop-kicks".
It is up to the rest us "White" and "Native" who don't fit into this statistic in whatever capacity to help, not the "Indigenous", but fellow countrymen and women - fellow Australians. This is where the true meaning of multiculturalism lies.