CR vs AMA

[TheOne]

Guys & Girls,

Hope everyone (be it whicever kingdom that you come from) take 3-4 mins to read through this post. This post contains honest and neutral thoughts and anyone and everyone is free to challenge them.

For those who have just started reading this thread, this is a quick update/recap.

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Q. Was AMA right to dealbreak CR/Havoc and wave them before CF expiry date?

In terms of the CF conditions, it's considered a dealbreak by AMA because the CF hasnt expired itself. However, AMA do take responsibility for their action and said their purpose is to 'punish' CR/Haovc. There have been differing voices from AMA on whether they would be keeping their acres, whether they are doing this to crown etc.

AMA's members have their rationale for doing so, which will be explained in the next few pointers.

Q. Was CR/Havoc right to create this thread and call dibs on AMA 1+weeks in advance of possible notice date?

Technically speaking, there is nothing wrong as it can be seen with either good or bad intentions. CR could be giving AMA advanced information that a notice would be served and hence benefiting AMA, or CR could be trying to 'force' AMA into warring them and no other kingdom.

There has been many cases where Kingdom A will tell Kingdom B that they are going to be noticed (i.e for Pyros' case, Simians noticing Pyro, BB-Pyro arranged war (where a notice still needs to be sent) etc etc). I still think it's fine with the intention of telling Kingdom B to not do any shady shenanigans, but it is not fine if the advanced notice is meant to 'corner' Kingdom A.

What was CR's intention in this thread? It looks like a mixture of both intentions.

However, I do not think it's very wise to ****talk/thrashtalk an opponent before you get into a SECURED advantageous position yourself. ****-talking/thrash-talking is fine per-say as it adds more fun & laughter to the game... and said to the right audience (no problem, you can **** talk me it's fine :D i can take it!) But I feel that certain members of CR really did it at the wrong timing (probably kicking themselves in the head now :( )

Q. Why was AMA pissed? Is it justified?

Based on certain AMA's + CR's members post + what I can see,

- AMA was mainly pissed for the fact that CR wanted to call dibs on AMA first and said that CR would be hitting them on April 1st regardless of what is going to happen. AMA felt that they are being 'forced' to war with CR.
- AMA also mentioned that they have a reset clause with CR (72hrs notice) that if AMA was involved in a hostile/war, this notice period has to be reset-ed. What happened was that AMA said that CR initially said that they are not willing to give an additional 72hrs notice if AMA were to war Pyro (i.e hitting AMA straight out of post-war is fine).
- AMA was also pissed that the past couple of ages, they got **** played (from their point of view) and no action were taken to help them. Apparently, (just had a history lesson of uto), AMA was doubled by Havoc+Sanc 3 ages ago... and Havoc+Sanc leaders are currently playing in CR. With that being said, AMA+Simians+Pew+BB+SWEA? all ganged up to kill abs the following age (2 ages ago)

In the end, CR was willing to allow both AMA+Pyro to war each other and give 96hours post war notice for both kingdoms on the condition that AMA+Pyro cannot b2b and the winner cannot run from CR. This was about 3.5-4 days before possible notice date. (note: Thread was started about 8-9days before possible notice date) Pyro was fine with this, but AMA said that this offer came very late and that the ****-talk+threathening already caused a deep wound.. CR claimed that this offer did not come very late.

In addition, AMA claimed that CR only offered this after they saw the ghetto razes on AMA's cow which weakened AMA alot... and hence CR felt more confident. (and tbh ofc, Pyros also felt more confident after this.)

Q. So should AMA be 'punished' for dealbreaking CR?

AMA members already said they expected to be GB so it is assumed they know they will be 'punished'. The more important question here is that : is this a bias-ed GB on AMA? Considering the fact that there were many '****plays' the past few ages that went unpunished.

Q. So has AMA played a great age so far? What about CR? What about Pyros? (the 3 current front runners thus far)

AMA definitely played a wonderful age thus far. Warring to whoring. They managed to beat two reputable kingdoms (Pew+Rage) in b2b2b wars (RK-Pew-Rage) and were in disadvantageous positions in both wars (Pew+Rage). Their warring ability is definitely top class, if not the best in utopia. However, after the ghetto problems (razes from solo cows from a ghetto kingdom), AMA had close to zero chance of winning CR in a straight up 1v1 fight as of then, and the razes also considerably reduced AMA's chance of a win vs Pyros as of then. If they had somehow won Pyro + Havoc back to back, I am sure even the worst haters of AMA will also give AMA credit.

CR has also definitely played a wonderful age so far. Diplomacy to whoring. They set up long-terms CFs with several kingdoms and managed to pick up acres + pump science freely throughout the age. Warring a way to win in utopia, but diplomacy also works. Whether or not 'tax-ing' kingdoms like Simians to 'slow-down' PewPew/Pyro is 'fine', it is up to the individual opinon. Personally, I disliked CR for doing so (from a competitor's viewpoint) but I dont find anything 'wrong' with it.. This is because once again, CR played a diplomatic age and used their resources+strengths to acehive such leveraged deals.

What about Pyros? Compared to the two above kingdoms, we probably did not do that great in terms of warring compared to AMA (Legacy, Simians, BB were tough opponents but were nothing compared to what AMA faced... b2b2b wars with Pewpew+Rage)... and we probably did not do that well in diplomacy compared to CR.. It is true that our chances of winning the age was quite low before AMA 'dealbroke' CR... However, we were willing to take our chances to war AMA and CR b2b, and there were strategies/plans that we had to win both kingdoms.. Unfortunately, I would not be able to share these with the public now.

In addition, some may say that if Pyros were to win the crown now.. would it be legitimate? would it be fair? (give they had very low chances...). I would say it is fair and legitmate. Why? Take the analogy of a chess game, Pyros is probably a Queen down and in a massively disadvantaged position... However, they are not lost yet. They can be patient and hope for a 'mistake' from the opponents to provide an opening. In this case, this 'mistake' came from AMA waving Havoc and hence providing a possible opening..

With that being said, Pyros will not take full advantage of this situation. We will take some advantage and get into a better position than we had before (before AMA waved CR), but it will be capped. Only time will tell if we stay true to our words. In addition, if we were to just whore up during CR-AMA conflict, and CR-AMA were to have a 1v1 fight, there would be zero chance that we can actually be on par with AMA after their huge cows+ww land bonus + huge acres. More importantly, this would mean that Pyros support this dealbreak/**** play and our stance is against such stuff. Not acting against this means we tolerate such stuff, that's a no.

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Once again, feel free to rebutt any of my points. Have a nice day!

Cheers
cJ

-----

PS: if you want tldr cliff notes version. TOO BAD DONT HAVE

tldr: #YOLO!

[Band of Horses]

I have a little story for everyone

Our story begins in the old west. A tumbleweed blows through town as dusk approaches. The townsfolk gather with shotguns and torches. They march down main street to the saloon. Outside stands the man that shot the sheriff, Elit Cassidy. He fires off one shot from his six shooter and says, "Now I may not be able to shoot you all but I sure as hell will take down the first few that try." Now the townsfolk must decide do they protect order in their small town and risk meeting the same fate as Sheriff CR.

[Cello]

With that being said, Pyros will not take full advantage of this situation. We will take some advantage and get into a better position than we had before (before AMA waved CR), but it will be capped. Only time will tell if we stay true to our words.

And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. The one and only Pyro, gallantly riding to the forefront of fairplay will join in the GB on AMA. But instead of razing the acres, as they should be doing, they'll grab some, just to create an advantage. Hypocrisy galore. This game is dead

[wickedfail]

I have a little story for everyone

Our story begins in the old west. A tumbleweed blows through town as dusk approaches. The townsfolk gather with shotguns and torches. They march down main street to the saloon. Outside stands the man that shot the sheriff, Elit Cassidy. He fires off one shot from his six shooter and says, "Now I may not be able to shoot you all but I sure as hell will take down the first few that try." Now the townsfolk must decide do they protect order in their small town and risk meeting the same fate as Sheriff CR.

Then Clint Eastwood comes and you're all screwed.

[American Badass]

And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. The one and only Pyro, gallantly riding to the forefront of fairplay will join in the GB on AMA. But instead of razing the acres, as they should be doing, they'll grab some, just to create an advantage. Hypocrisy galore. This game is dead

The one and only AMA, crying they were being bullied, said they would pull out of the crown race, that they are not interested in the crown and want to be left alone to punish Havoc. But instead of razing the acres, as they should have done, they grabbed them, just to create an advantage. Hypocrisy galore. This game is dead.

[Elit]

Thanks for your twisted post CJ. Lets translate it to rest: We will process GB now.

[Ezzerland]

TBH, I would welcome an age where CF and alliances don't exist. A back to it's roots age where every kingdom has to fend for itself. At the very least I think it would be an interesting experiment that, who knows, may even balance kingdom growth. Especially considering dicing/exploring is so linear now and you can only whore until the last ghetto is out of range b4 being forced into waring the more experienced kingdoms (if you can get them to give you the flipp'n button, but that's another game mechanic problem for another thread).

It would make for an interesting Age. I am sure with Elit's vocal thick headed approach that it is surely coming, for AMA at least.

Honestly, I've only had ~3 ages off since Age 4. Never really stopped playing. There are some selfish prats that wont let people retire from this game even after getting married, working 12 hour days and raising 2 kids... Anyways, I'm always around, just never idle anywhere but the kingdom channel. I usually stay away from all the trolling and drama since it's usually not worth the stress or time (as you can see by my number of posts), but this thread interested me. I'm fascinated by the line drawn in the sand. There's the folks that hate AMA and no matter what they do they're the scum plaguing the game, and then there's the people that relate to them or respect their game play (probably fewer of them now lol).

How's your better half?

Dang man. I took 3 years off. Quit cold turkey and literally stopped talking to anyone/showing up on IRC. Game still got the better of me and pulled me back in. The lady is doing fine, and so are the kids :) Getting prepped to move another 3k miles this summer. Home sweet home :)

Where was all "moral" people when Sanctuary and Havoc duble hostile us. Did they get GB for it?
Where was all "moral" people when Pew Pew farmed out to swea and after SWEA manipulate Simians/Stripers to GB us, when this not worked SWEA deal broke us too.
Where was all "moral" people when Pew Pew farmed out last age to Rage. Did they got GBed for chart shape every age? No they become ally with Rage next age. Sure its make sense.
Where was all "moral" people when we get **** played every age? No one care about us. Its same this age too. ATM no one care for havoc. All was perfect fine if we raze acres after we take down Havoc so Pyro can win age. Now because we dont raze them Drixx/CJ feel upsed and become "moral".

If pyro want to win his age legit can war havoc now 1vs1 and if win his war we will let them finish n1. If Pyro get involved in any gb don't matter how its end if Puro win its result from free pass. No more legit from if we win from deal break.
So make your choices and bring some action...and be ready for get punished for them in future ;)

Bandwagoning doesn't make you a cool cat. You were offered help to GB Havoc the age they 2v1'd you, and turned it down. For the last 3 ages, the combo of you and flogger have been the only ones with any real power. You weren't interested in addressing **** play. I'm sure you wont be in the future too.

Rage did the right thing last age, and offered you a diplomatic solution this age to let you claim your "revenge" (which is another bull**** story), and you refused that. You're not interested in ethics anymore, period.

Also, Rage becoming allies with pew seems to have ensured Pew didn't farm out this age or do any ****play. That's more than you were willing to do. In case you forget, you publicly stated you were not interested in fixing these kinds of problems at the core. Now I see why.

If the top is not prepared to handle you with appropriate action, then they had better be prepared for your continued ****play. I will be expecting it.

[goodz]

I have a little story for everyone

Our story begins in the old west. A tumbleweed blows through town as dusk approaches. The townsfolk gather with shotguns and torches. They march down main street to the saloon. Outside stands the man that shot the sheriff, Elit Cassidy. He fires off one shot from his six shooter and says, "Now I may not be able to shoot you all but I sure as hell will take down the first few that try." Now the townsfolk must decide do they protect order in their small town and risk meeting the same fate as Sheriff CR.

Who is the sundance kid?

Ultimately he is the best.

[faegan]

And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. The one and only Pyro, gallantly riding to the forefront of fairplay will join in the GB on AMA. But instead of razing the acres, as they should be doing, they'll grab some, just to create an advantage. Hypocrisy galore. This game is dead

Coming from the person that:
1. ****played
2. Intends to brake promiss made AFTER ****play (intra raze)

The game is dead? No. Only AMA will have no place in the near Utopian future. But I doubt AMA cares as they only ever refer to past events....

[Abscond]

When we say we will take the responsibility Ezzer, that means we are aware we are going to get gbed. I don't get where is the lie in that? Please explain. When we say we are not going for the crown, it's not because we don't want to, it's because we expect to be gbed and we know we got no chance. End of story. How is that a lie? We lie that we are going to be gbed?

As for the threats of CR being only threats. It's not like we didn't get ****played before. Usually kds that threaten us, fulfill their promises. But what is more important, and i really don't get it why it is hard to grasp. AMA dealt with threats before. We did the same thing, when we are threatened we act. Pewpew knows that. And everybody else could have seen it. I personally hate the dealbreak. But if i have to choose db and get gbed for it, or farmout to Pyro to give them crown...second will never happen. So i don't know why we still discuss it:

- we made a deal break
- you are going to GB us for it

End of story. All additional bs talk is only because different parties would love to gain something from that GB. If it is only about punishing us, stop the posts, prepare and do it. But of course it has never been only about that :).

Why dealbreak in the first place? I think you just wanted to avaoid getting farmed by CR in 1VS1 war. Getting farmed by CR 1VS1 is more humiliating than getting GBed.

[Proteus]

@Cj

"Would it be fair if pyro wins the age now"

Answer: Depends how you win. The better question to ask is how a pyro crown would be considered by community.

If pyro won age from whoring because ama and havoc were locked in an eoa fight. Yes, people outside of conflcit can outgrow those who fight a destructive battle and it happens. This would be legitimate, no one would blame you for it while people would say it mainly happened because AMA took out havoc who would have otherwise won.

If pyro won age from participating in gb on ama on the other hand everyone would laugh at you if you tried to talk about your "crown" considering you had no chance to win age as havoc would have won it not did you prove that you can win 1v1 vs either ama or havoc. That crown will be worth as much as sweas farmout crown and people will laugh at it and not pat you on back.

You know I have a plan of how I can become CEO of my bank too, it doesn't mean I am going to suceed same way you had plan to "win" vs havoc and ama b2b.

[Elit]

Why dealbreak in the first place? I think you just wanted to avaoid getting farmed by CR in 1VS1 war. Getting farmed by CR 1VS1 is more humiliating than getting GBed.

Ask Simians. They just deal broke us :)
Guess next kds for deal breck are Rage= drixx going to have in his history arange 2 gbs for past 4 ages.


Lets see how many deal break we will get :)

[Chrystal Palace]

so is AMA going for crown or are they going to ditch the acres they got from CR? i think that is the question that can solve all issues.

[ShadowFox]

Guys & Girls,

Hope everyone (be it whicever kingdom that you come from) take 3-4 mins to read through this post. This post contains honest and neutral thoughts and anyone and everyone is free to challenge them.

For those who have just started reading this thread, this is a quick update/recap.

-----------------------

Q. Was AMA right to dealbreak CR/Havoc and wave them before CF expiry date?

In terms of the CF conditions, it's considered a dealbreak by AMA because the CF hasnt expired itself. However, AMA do take responsibility for their action and said their purpose is to 'punish' CR/Haovc. There have been differing voices from AMA on whether they would be keeping their acres, whether they are doing this to crown etc.

AMA's members have their rationale for doing so, which will be explained in the next few pointers.

Q. Was CR/Havoc right to create this thread and call dibs on AMA 1+weeks in advance of possible notice date?

Technically speaking, there is nothing wrong as it can be seen with either good or bad intentions. CR could be giving AMA advanced information that a notice would be served and hence benefiting AMA, or CR could be trying to 'force' AMA into warring them and no other kingdom.

There has been many cases where Kingdom A will tell Kingdom B that they are going to be noticed (i.e for Pyros' case, Simians noticing Pyro, BB-Pyro arranged war (where a notice still needs to be sent) etc etc). I still think it's fine with the intention of telling Kingdom B to not do any shady shenanigans, but it is not fine if the advanced notice is meant to 'corner' Kingdom A.

What was CR's intention in this thread? It looks like a mixture of both intentions.

However, I do not think it's very wise to ****talk/thrashtalk an opponent before you get into a SECURED advantageous position yourself. ****-talking/thrash-talking is fine per-say as it adds more fun & laughter to the game... and said to the right audience (no problem, you can **** talk me it's fine :D i can take it!) But I feel that certain members of CR really did it at the wrong timing (probably kicking themselves in the head now :( )

Q. Why was AMA pissed? Is it justified?

Based on certain AMA's + CR's members post + what I can see,

- AMA was mainly pissed for the fact that CR wanted to call dibs on AMA first and said that CR would be hitting them on April 1st regardless of what is going to happen. AMA felt that they are being 'forced' to war with CR.
- AMA also mentioned that they have a reset clause with CR (72hrs notice) that if AMA was involved in a hostile/war, this notice period has to be reset-ed. What happened was that AMA said that CR initially said that they are not willing to give an additional 72hrs notice if AMA were to war Pyro (i.e hitting AMA straight out of post-war is fine).
- AMA was also pissed that the past couple of ages, they got **** played (from their point of view) and no action were taken to help them. Apparently, (just had a history lesson of uto), AMA was doubled by Havoc+Sanc 3 ages ago... and Havoc+Sanc leaders are currently playing in CR. With that being said, AMA+Simians+Pew+BB+SWEA? all ganged up to kill abs the following age (2 ages ago)

In the end, CR was willing to allow both AMA+Pyro to war each other and give 96hours post war notice for both kingdoms on the condition that AMA+Pyro cannot b2b and the winner cannot run from CR. This was about 3.5-4 days before possible notice date. (note: Thread was started about 8-9days before possible notice date) Pyro was fine with this, but AMA said that this offer came very late and that the ****-talk+threathening already caused a deep wound.. CR claimed that this offer did not come very late.

In addition, AMA claimed that CR only offered this after they saw the ghetto razes on AMA's cow which weakened AMA alot... and hence CR felt more confident. (and tbh ofc, Pyros also felt more confident after this.)

Q. So should AMA be 'punished' for dealbreaking CR?

AMA members already said they expected to be GB so it is assumed they know they will be 'punished'. The more important question here is that : is this a bias-ed GB on AMA? Considering the fact that there were many '****plays' the past few ages that went unpunished.

Q. So has AMA played a great age so far? What about CR? What about Pyros? (the 3 current front runners thus far)

AMA definitely played a wonderful age thus far. Warring to whoring. They managed to beat two reputable kingdoms (Pew+Rage) in b2b2b wars (RK-Pew-Rage) and were in disadvantageous positions in both wars (Pew+Rage). Their warring ability is definitely top class, if not the best in utopia. However, after the ghetto problems (razes from solo cows from a ghetto kingdom), AMA had close to zero chance of winning CR in a straight up 1v1 fight as of then, and the razes also considerably reduced AMA's chance of a win vs Pyros as of then. If they had somehow won Pyro + Havoc back to back, I am sure even the worst haters of AMA will also give AMA credit.

CR has also definitely played a wonderful age so far. Diplomacy to whoring. They set up long-terms CFs with several kingdoms and managed to pick up acres + pump science freely throughout the age. Warring a way to win in utopia, but diplomacy also works. Whether or not 'tax-ing' kingdoms like Simians to 'slow-down' PewPew/Pyro is 'fine', it is up to the individual opinon. Personally, I disliked CR for doing so (from a competitor's viewpoint) but I dont find anything 'wrong' with it.. This is because once again, CR played a diplomatic age and used their resources+strengths to acehive such leveraged deals.

What about Pyros? Compared to the two above kingdoms, we probably did not do that great in terms of warring compared to AMA (Legacy, Simians, BB were tough opponents but were nothing compared to what AMA faced... b2b2b wars with Pewpew+Rage)... and we probably did not do that well in diplomacy compared to CR.. It is true that our chances of winning the age was quite low before AMA 'dealbroke' CR... However, we were willing to take our chances to war AMA and CR b2b, and there were strategies/plans that we had to win both kingdoms.. Unfortunately, I would not be able to share these with the public now.

In addition, some may say that if Pyros were to win the crown now.. would it be legitimate? would it be fair? (give they had very low chances...). I would say it is fair and legitmate. Why? Take the analogy of a chess game, Pyros is probably a Queen down and in a massively disadvantaged position... However, they are not lost yet. They can be patient and hope for a 'mistake' from the opponents to provide an opening. In this case, this 'mistake' came from AMA waving Havoc and hence providing a possible opening..

With that being said, Pyros will not take full advantage of this situation. We will take some advantage and get into a better position than we had before (before AMA waved CR), but it will be capped. Only time will tell if we stay true to our words. In addition, if we were to just whore up during CR-AMA conflict, and CR-AMA were to have a 1v1 fight, there would be zero chance that we can actually be on par with AMA after their huge cows+ww land bonus + huge acres. More importantly, this would mean that Pyros support this dealbreak/**** play and our stance is against such stuff. Not acting against this means we tolerate such stuff, that's a no.

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Once again, feel free to rebutt any of my points. Have a nice day!

Cheers
cJ

-----

PS: if you want tldr cliff notes version. TOO BAD DONT HAVE

tldr: #YOLO!

I fully support and endorse this post

[Elit]

so is AMA going for crown or are they going to ditch the acres they got from CR? i think that is the question that can solve all issues.

Pyro is going for FREE crown. They just deal broke us after Simians.
AMA is going for TV news :)