I'm going to repeat this again. Cause it was lost the past couple of ages. added some parts
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Guys & Girls,
Hope everyone (be it whicever kingdom that you come from) take 3-4 mins to read through this post. This post contains honest and neutral thoughts and anyone and everyone is free to challenge them.
For those who have just started reading this thread, this is a quick update/recap.
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Q. Was AMA right to dealbreak CR/Havoc and wave them before CF expiry date?
In terms of the CF conditions, it's considered a dealbreak by AMA because the CF hasnt expired itself. However, AMA do take responsibility for their action and said their purpose is to 'punish' CR/Haovc. There have been differing voices from AMA on whether they would be keeping their acres, whether they are doing this to crown etc.
AMA's members have their rationale for doing so, which will be explained in the next few pointers.
Q. Was CR/Havoc right to create this thread and call dibs on AMA 1+weeks in advance of possible notice date?
Technically speaking, there is nothing wrong as it can be seen with either good or bad intentions. CR could be giving AMA advanced information that a notice would be served and hence benefiting AMA, or CR could be trying to 'force' AMA into warring them and no other kingdom.
There has been many cases where Kingdom A will tell Kingdom B that they are going to be noticed (i.e for Pyros' case, Simians noticing Pyro, BB-Pyro arranged war (where a notice still needs to be sent) etc etc). I still think it's fine with the intention of telling Kingdom B to not do any shady shenanigans, but it is not fine if the advanced notice is meant to 'corner' Kingdom A.
What was CR's intention in this thread? It looks like a mixture of both intentions.
However, I do not think it's very wise to ****talk/thrashtalk an opponent before you get into a SECURED advantageous position yourself. ****-talking/thrash-talking is fine per-say as it adds more fun & laughter to the game... and said to the right audience (no problem, you can **** talk me it's fine :D i can take it!) But I feel that certain members of CR really did it at the wrong timing (probably kicking themselves in the head now :( )
Q. Why was AMA pissed? Is it justified?
Based on certain AMA's + CR's members post + what I can see,
- AMA was mainly pissed for the fact that CR wanted to call dibs on AMA first and said that CR would be hitting them on April 1st regardless of what is going to happen. AMA felt that they are being 'forced' to war with CR.
- AMA also mentioned that they have a reset clause with CR (72hrs notice) that if AMA was involved in a hostile/war, this notice period has to be reset-ed. What happened was that AMA said that CR initially said that they are not willing to give an additional 72hrs notice if AMA were to war Pyro (i.e hitting AMA straight out of post-war is fine).
- AMA was also pissed that the past couple of ages, they got **** played (from their point of view) and no action were taken to help them. Apparently, (just had a history lesson of uto), AMA was doubled by Havoc+Sanc 3 ages ago... and Havoc+Sanc leaders are currently playing in CR. With that being said, AMA+Simians+Pew+BB+SWEA? all ganged up to kill abs the following age (2 ages ago)
In the end, CR was willing to allow both AMA+Pyro to war each other and give 96hours post war notice for both kingdoms on the condition that AMA+Pyro cannot b2b and the winner cannot run from CR. This was about 3.5-4 days before possible notice date. (note: Thread was started about 8-9days before possible notice date) Pyro was fine with this, but AMA said that this offer came very late and that the ****-talk+threathening already caused a deep wound.. CR claimed that this offer did not come very late.
In addition, AMA claimed that CR only offered this after they saw the ghetto razes on AMA's cow which weakened AMA alot... and hence CR felt more confident. (and tbh ofc, Pyros also felt more confident after this.). It was to the point where I felt Pyros chances vs AMA jumped from 25% to 75% (after cow razes)
Q. So should AMA be 'punished' for dealbreaking CR?
AMA members already said they expected to be GB so it is assumed they know they will be 'punished'. The more important question here is that : is this a bias-ed GB on AMA? Considering the fact that there were many '****plays' the past few ages that went unpunished.
Q. So has AMA played a great age so far? What about CR? What about Pyros? (the 3 current front runners thus far)
AMA definitely played a wonderful age thus far. Warring to whoring. They managed to beat two reputable kingdoms (Pew+Rage) in b2b2b wars (RK-Pew-Rage) and were in disadvantageous positions in both wars (Pew+Rage). Their warring ability is definitely top class, if not the best in utopia. However, after the ghetto problems (razes from solo cows from a ghetto kingdom), AMA had close to zero chance of winning CR in a straight up 1v1 fight as of then, and the razes also considerably reduced AMA's chance of a win vs Pyros as of then. If they had somehow won Pyro + Havoc back to back, I am sure even the worst haters of AMA will also give AMA credit.
CR has also definitely played a wonderful age so far. Diplomacy to whoring. They set up long-terms CFs with several kingdoms and managed to pick up acres + pump science freely throughout the age. Warring a way to win in utopia, but diplomacy also works. Whether or not 'tax-ing' kingdoms like Simians to 'slow-down' PewPew/Pyro is 'fine', it is up to the individual opinon. Personally, I disliked CR for doing so (from a competitor's viewpoint) but I dont find anything 'wrong' with it.. This is because once again, CR played a diplomatic age and used their resources+strengths to acehive such leveraged deals.
What about Pyros? Compared to the two above kingdoms, we probably did not do that great in terms of warring compared to AMA (Legacy, Simians, BB were tough opponents but were nothing compared to what AMA faced... b2b2b wars with Pewpew+Rage)... and we probably did not do that well in diplomacy compared to CR.. It is true that our chances of winning the age was quite low before AMA 'dealbroke' CR... However, we were willing to take our chances to war AMA and CR b2b, and there were strategies/plans that we had to win both kingdoms.. Unfortunately, I would not be able to share these with the public now.
In addition, some may say that if Pyros were to win the crown now.. would it be legitimate? would it be fair? (give they had very low chances...). I would say it is fair and legitmate. Why? Take the analogy of a chess game, Pyros is probably a Queen down and in a massively disadvantaged position... However, they are not lost yet. They can be patient and hope for a 'mistake' from the opponents to provide an opening. In this case, this 'mistake' came from AMA waving Havoc and hence providing a possible opening..
With that being said, Pyros will not take full advantage of this situation. We will take some advantage and get into a better position than we had before (before AMA waved CR), but it will be capped. Only time will tell if we stay true to our words. In addition, if we were to just whore up during CR-AMA conflict, and CR-AMA were to have a 1v1 fight, there would be zero chance that we can actually be on par with AMA after their huge cows+ww land bonus + huge acres. More importantly, this would mean that Pyros support this dealbreak/**** play and our stance is against such stuff. Not acting against this means we tolerate such stuff, that's a no.
Trust me, Pyros have many players who do not give a **** about crowning. They would like have it, but if they dont get it they wont whine, and if they get it unfairly they wont want it. I have players who will abandon if they see leadership doing ****play.
In closing, there's a slight possibility that AMA is too strong a kingdom, and that there needs for many kingdoms to bring them down.. Because the strongest are usually the most hated. and they usually do not win. I believe this is what players in AMA believe, but it's up to the community to decide if this is true or not. I am indifferent on this
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Once again, feel free to rebutt any of my points. Have a nice day!
Cheers
cJ
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PS: if you want tldr cliff notes version. TOO BAD DONT HAVE
tldr: #YOLO!
Originally Posted by Elit
