CR vs AMA

[guard14n]

1.) He demanded that we all self raze and gift Elit the crown he thinks he's "entitled" to.
2.) We all self-raze out of the top 10

That's his idea of diplomacy.

Yeah that was hysterical :D Trolling like a baws!

[Proteus]

What were your reasonable offers?

You should talk to AB he thinks we should all raze ourselves out of t10, do you remember any post-awar settlements where the party gbed ended up having to essentially delete, the ones I've seen basically offered cfs and that was it but you've been playing longer than i have.

This is what I don't get, why wasn't this taken? Whether its 4 days or 6 days or whatever.

This was only offered after we ate razes from ex-mercy/havoc player, prior to that it was not even an option. That deal precluded b2b war which takes several strategies off the table, do you enjoy fighting with both hands tied behind your back? Its essentially a farmd eal for havoc as whoever wins that fight is going to come out real battered and gets vultured right after by a kd thats pumping for 10 weeks.

They had every single advantage imaginable and could have afforded to be graceful, let us war pyro 1v1 and war for #1 2 weeks t before the eoa. Thats what kds with supposed good relations do. They benefitted from elits friendly long term cf at beginning of round which allowed them to get into their position as opposed to losing to ama again, had we no cf we'd have just taken havoc out after their fight ended with bb oow.

How's your azn gf doin, working dat eggroll eh?

1.) He demanded that we all self raze and gift Elit the crown he thinks he's "entitled" to.
2.) We all self-raze out of the top 10

That's his idea of diplomacy.

I think you are confusing this with the province crown you felt you have won 4 weeks prior to eoa that you were "entitled" to. Same way you were entitled to get 70k acres from pewpew in a week last age because they farmed you when you tried to explore without cfs. TAke your head out of your batty please.

[Zauper]

You should talk to AB he thinks we should all raze ourselves out of t10, do you remember any post-awar settlements where the party gbed ended up having to essentially delete, the ones I've seen basically offered cfs and that was it but you've been playing longer than i have.

Most end in CFs with deals for moving forward. My understanding is that they're looking for you to drop out of the crown race this age, which seems reasonable and a deal for moving forward. In awars, that has handled things like doubling / etc. I think in this situation, they're looking to create a top code of ethics, which might be nice for preventing all the ****play of late. The issue, of course, is enforcement.

I can't recall any awar / gb in which all parties razed down after, though they often cost the participants a shot at the crown.

Flogger: shai is quite literally correct, and that's what cello / elit have said. They didn't believe they could fight pyro on even grounds / win a war vs pyro, so they decided to deal break instead of taking the fair deal. Even in the logs elit posted of him talking to cj, cj mentions the offer.

[thecaracal]

You do realize the long cf AMA gave Havoc was at beginning of age and based on good relations and was also FREE. If we knew havoc would play dirty like this and decide to end good relations out of pure greed and no self confidence (afraid we war pyro first when they have pumped for 9 weeks) they would have never had a cf like this and would have been taken down earlier in age same way they lost to BB and us last 2 ages. Get real, it's a 2 way street.

"I thought we were friends. You're doing what's right for your kingdom, but it's bad for my kingdom. We would never do this to you!"

[Godly]

I like how Proteus thinks that AMA extended a CF to us before the age started as an act of charity and not a strategic move for them to be able to remove their top competition early while they warred the rest.

Had you not had that CF, Proteus, you'd have ended up where BB did: coming out of a war vs a ghetto and us waving you with 20k extra land.

[Aranfein]

lol at all these posts, some of you guys are hypocrits & others are down right arrogant to say the least..

[Zauper]

Proteus: no ex CR player razed you. Stop claiming it or come up with proof. This is the third or fourth time I've seen that false accusation.

[jjofdenmark]

Well All in all the thing is over and we need to move on .. with all the comming hammering and yelling and name calling ofc, but still. It is kind of funny however as things turned out. Had you asked me 2 weeks ago how things would look right about now, my best guess would be something excatly like this .. except ofc that Pyro would have a 4/4 and CR still a 0/0 ;-)

[PhoenixScorpion]

The idea of rules for the game is nice by itself but impossible to become reality. In order to have fair play u need rules - thats correct but in order those rules to be applied fair u need a judge and like the people are not judges in RL the community here cant be judge by itself. If u get a rulebook of some sort and lets say some kd screws up and PR the whole thing arround (we have some good tallents here) who is to say who is right or wrong? Its not the community over all its the top kds - ergo the most powerful kds.Kingdoms at top CANNOT judge other kds. Meaning that if people who judge are involved in any part (does not matter how tiny the involvment is) they cant be honest judges and say - this kd did wrong and it deserves GB. If that happens thats not fairplay thats bullying and powerplaying and whenever u have an aggressor u have resistance as well which renders the rulebook mute. If u write down rules kds that do wrong must be judged by a neutral party with no affiliation with any kd of what so ever like a moderator/admin or w/e (very unlikely). If not the idea is just temporary big talk with no real meaning behindit ergo - useless.

The movement right now is also useless considering that if the kds does not have common enemy they will make one. This is a war game and everything here is about interest, this age, next age or w/e its all about interest. People here ****play, manipulate and powerplay every time and it cant be stopped. U are trying to police one dealbreak (of a dealbreak but w/e) now but from here on u have 2 choices only - 1st create a big alliance and keep GB all that dont agree with u; 2nd forget that ever happened after 1-2 ages and keeps ****playing ur mates when they become ur enemies.

The whole thing is pointless and everyone with a brain (not u Anri put down ur hand) will understand what im talking about.

+1 ...

[Proteus]

Most end in CFs with deals for moving forward. My understanding is that they're looking for you to drop out of the crown race this age, which seems reasonable and a deal for moving forward. In awars, that has handled things like doubling / etc. I think in this situation, they're looking to create a top code of ethics, which might be nice for preventing all the ****play of late. The issue, of course, is enforcement.

I can't recall any awar / gb in which all parties razed down after, though they often cost the participants a shot at the crown.

Flogger: shai is quite literally correct, and that's what cello / elit have said. They didn't believe they could fight pyro on even grounds / win a war vs pyro, so they decided to deal break instead of taking the fair deal. Even in the logs elit posted of him talking to cj, cj mentions the offer.

Do you personally think its not hypocritcal for kingdoms that themselves have openly engaged in ****play to come up with rules of 'fair play?' The problem here is people arbitrarily action stuff but the group currently GBing us has done shady things in many ages including this current one.

There are also different ways of dropping out of the crown race (i.e. EOA naps) vs deleting your kingdom.

I like how Proteus thinks that AMA extended a CF to us before the age started as an act of charity and not a strategic move for them to be able to remove their top competition early while they warred the rest.

Had you not had that CF, Proteus, you'd have ended up where BB did: coming out of a war vs a ghetto and us waving you with 20k extra land.

Ever consider we'd have a different strategy and not war the ghetto? Also you can't wave us and BB at the same time, and you risk being picked up by another kd after if you dont force war.

[flogger]

Wait, havoc people...... did gacib really raze AMA's bank and then you guys complain and get the whole server to gangbang someone who dealbroke you? I'd f'in dealbreak you too.

[Nick_mi]

Wait, havoc people...... did gacib really raze AMA's bank and then you guys complain and get the whole server to gangbang someone who dealbroke you? I'd f'in dealbreak you too.

lol wut?

[topsy's revenge]

Wasn't Gacib. We found out about it the same time as AMA did: after we saw it in the news.

edit: OMG I just realized that Flogger played in Mercy which is where TheRock led. The plot thickens!

[TheOne]

I see some people asking why should Pyros be gaining acres out of all these, and I will be addressing this issue.

First, I think it's pretty clear that Pyro isnt at fault before the dealbreak that occured (AMA waving CR before CF is up). We were sitting at #2 and waiting to see what's happening around, and were in pump builds. This was some days before notice period is up.

Any neutral observer here would say that AMA is definitely guilty for dealbreaking, but CR is not totally innocent and has some fault. I would say that they did the diplo negotiating badly to some extent. Most would think that AMA's dealbreaking ranks higher on the ****play level.

Then the dealbreak occurred. Initially, Pyros didnt know what to do, whose side to be on. At the start, it seemed like AMA was doing this to have their '1-time' revenge off and were going to intra-raze acres and drop out of the crown after things are over. But, is it still right to deal break? In addition, several leadership members of AMA backtracked on their words after sometime and no one from the top felt that they could understand what AMA is plotting.

In addition, our only small chance of winning the crown legitly (which is to b2b wars with AMA and CR) was taken away from us. I dont like how people say we have 0 chance in winning b2b wars. I prefer the words 'low chance' and Pyros was prepared to beat AMA and lose to CR (if so). At least we go down fighting. However, after AMA cows got razed by the mysterious ghetto, AMA didnt want to war Pyro anymore. I dont think it's fair that Pyros only possibility to win the crown legitly is taken away from us like this, especially with AMA's decision to raze CR.

Once again, Pyros do not like the words 0 chance in winning b2b wars. We prefer the words 'low chance'. We come from a top warring tier background

So comes down to the question on why pyro is taking acres? (more importantly, some acres)

First, if the community could notice, we been tracking our hits very carefully, and planned to have CR ending up at the same size as us (and we did a good job with this). This is so that there would be no loss of acres from razing and wasted time on that. In addition, we have done both razes + TMs.. and our TMs have been controlled. If Pyros wanted to, we could have just TM all acres, and we will nett much much more from it. at least 30k (we nett about 15k from the TMs this war i think. havent formatted papers). And we could have easily keep tapping all of AMA's cows. But this isnt fair for CR, and we know that. We only did 4 big prov taps total in a 48hrs war, and this is with Pyros having 5 big provinces. (4 big prov taps from 5 pyros big provinces). CR also didnt want us to raze the cow acres because this would take away acres for CR's cows too. And we controlled our core hits.

Second, if Pyros were to just raze acres, CR is going to be massively larger than Pyros again post war... and we're basically helping out to be owned later on? You can call Pyros self-centered... but it is difficult to convince Pyros leadership to get us oo help out and then allow us to be owned later on by the same kingdom we helped. In addition, if we were to do only razes, it means that our originally legit chance to war for the crown is totally lost because we step in. Maybe Pyros leadership aint perfect enough to be total saints.

The coalition also agreed on that pyro-cr war should occur later in the age to determine a rightful crown winner, ceterus paribus. Again, the crown is already tainted, and at least this is trying to save a small part of it's legitness.

I hope this answers the community's question on why Pyros is taking some acres. Please note that the above are answers only to the question on why we are taking acres.

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Regarding on Pyros stance on this gb, Nesta & Me will issue our statement later.

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-cJ

[RemoteAdvisor]

Wait, havoc people...... did gacib really raze AMA's bank and then you guys complain and get the whole server to gangbang someone who dealbroke you? I'd f'in dealbreak you too.

I think we had a player named Gacib, but he was around 300 acres when we razed AMA. This guy isn't good at all. He just happend to land into a kingdom that got ****played by AMA and that payback when it hurts the most.