Anything interesting happening?

[Elldallan]

They make the changes, we break them. Actioning this is a completely new, terrible precedence. Just because it's happened to a kingdom that is not yours doesn't mean it won't happen to your kingdom in the future. You may think that you have come up with a really slick strategy, but instead of being rewarded, it might not really be a valid strategy according to the utopia police.

The difference between "really slick" and abuse seems obvious here it. When you're intentionally pushing the boundaries trying to get ahead you should be aware that you might push too far and end up getting burned.

- More military released than what was aided (military paid for with real cash).

That depends on when that military was trained as any resources gained after your abuse is tainted by said action, so if they had that military before your cheating happened then yes it would have been fair to let you keep it, but anything and everything trained after the abuse happened is tainted and should be removed.

- Still negative TB on the provs that got aided

Why should that have been changed? it's a reasonable part of the punishment.

- Total of 7 provs taken out of a war for a measly 8k soldiers

Well if it was 7 provs that participated(either by receiving the spoils or sending them) cheated then that seems reasonable. The punishment for cheating is supposed to be draconian, it's part of the deterrence.

- Loss of 2 reset credits purchased with real money that weren't used how we wanted them to be used. (This should be refunded).

No it shouldn't, you cheated and as a result you were actioned, thats standard in any game. If you cheat and get banned you can't demand to have your game refunded because you can no longer play it, regardless of wether it costs $0.02 or $80.

[Bishop]

It's not a loophole elit. They already balanced it. They made a mechanic, then they balanced it, and then they said using it is abuse.

We have deemed it to be an abuse of game mechanics, despite what you pretend to think.

[topsy's revenge]

So you deem something that you actively balanced to be an abuse? What is the point of balancing at all if you aren't balancing it with the intention of it not being (in your minds) an abusable mechanic?

[Bishop]

So you deem something that you actively balanced to be an abuse? What is the point of balancing at all if you aren't balancing it with the intention of it not being (in your minds) an abusable mechanic?

I've already answered this.

[Godly]

Nah topsy. They don't action it last round when it's actually a good strategy. This round it isn't a good strategy and they action it. Makes perfect sense.

[topsy's revenge]

Looking through your posts there are only 2 options for what you could possibly view as the answer to this: 1) you/devs decide what you want to do so arguments or consistency are unnecessary(ostensibly true but not exactly reasonable) and/or 2) That you fixed this with the intent of having it be balanced but then got mad when someone still used the now balanced mechanic. If 2, then you still haven't really addressed why you would actively balance something in the first place if you would still get mad when it is used in the now balanced fashion.

The most reasonable thing you say in this thread is that you think balancing is better than actioning, and yet you actively and intentionally balanced this very thing.

[Bishop]

Its not balanced if people still abuse it. Our failure to prevent the abuse adequately via mechanics doesn't give you license to abuse it.

[topsy's revenge]

People still use -time because they think they are getting more resources. People still aid to 99% because they think they are directing it better. Just because someone uses a balanced mechanic doesn't make it not-balanced.

My suspension links me to the code of conduct. I suspect "Players attempting to manipulate rules and quirks of the game in ways obviously not intended may be subject to deletion. " is the one that I "broke." How exactly did I do anything that wasn't intended if you actively thought about this exact situation and coded it so that when someone uses it there will be a mechanical response?

[Bishop]

I'm done going round in circles. Given that people in your kingdom thought this was abuse before you went ahead with it maybe you can ask them to explain.

[Godly]

Hahahahaha.

There was a round a long long time ago where elves were given ability to cast self spells on kdmates. Tredvolt had all elves in his kd dice him to be huge in protection. It was a genius strategy. Devs felt like it was abuse, but since it's hard to distinguish between clever strategy and abuse, they didn't action the kingdom. They just restarted the round and fixed the "problem."

If you are going to continue this nonsense that certain strategies are abuse and certain strategies are legal without telling us which are which, you are stifling innovation and encouraging people to play only one way. Utopia is about creative strategies.

If you feel a strategy is too good (read: abusive), balance the damn thing. Oh, wait. You already did. AND you're still upset that people are doing it. GG.

[topsy's revenge]

Considering that you're the one who actioned it I feel like you should be the one to explain. If it's abuse anytime someone uses a mechanic that you intentionally balance to work a certain way then there is absolutely no criteria for abuse outside of whether or not the kd that is using that mechanic has pissed you off or not.

I can find absolutely nothing in the code of conduct that you force linked me to outside of that 1 line which clearly doesn't apply here.

[Godly]

Bishop, every strategy I make is "abuse" because I'm smarter than others. If you're asking me to "not get a leg up" on others through clever strategies, there's no point playing. Your job is to find strats that are imbalanced. Congrats, you did it. Why are you still getting involved?

I make a motion that the released military units are reimbursed and lift the two suspensions since the "abuse" was already balanced. Let us play the game as it's written and fix stuff between rounds.

I refuse to play a strategy game in which the only strategy is what the admin deems is acceptable.

[Anri]

People found loopholes in this game forever and never have they been sanctioned like this before. Its just bad and very wrong. :/

another sad day for utopia...

[Elit]

People found loopholes in this game forever and never have they been sanctioned like this before. Its just bad and very wrong. :/

another sad day for utopia...

Should we tag "fair play" and GB them for proper punish?

[Godly]

Given that people in your kingdom thought this was abuse before you went ahead with it maybe you can ask them to explain.

Given I've played utopia for 17 years and this is the first time I've ever seen a particular strategy that isn't a bug abuse being punished, why don't you tell us what strategy to run next round? I don't want to be actioned or anything if my strategy is too powerful. Would it help if I pick 25 undead/rogue? Or is that too powerful too?

Is using soldiers to bounce an attack abuse of mechanics? I mean the intent of aid could be interpreted (via the nebulous spirit of the rules clause) to help a province grow/train, not to disrupt an attack. We already nerfed monarch bonuses to remove military bonus to prevent bounces of this such from happening. People are STILL doing it with soldiers. Cheaters!