Anything interesting happening?

[topsy's revenge]

Bishop removed 80k nw. About 20-25k troops. He removed it from provs that were 1-2 tappable and exclusively from dspecs making them landfarms. We aided 9k solds which we obviously could have had on those provs. those provs would have been out of commission for 4 days total, clearly not as good as just running them from the start.

As for how I knew it was your setup: I said in preage that the best setup for growth with 100% cf's was 20 human/wh, 3 elf/myst, 2 fae/wh. You went even more late age heavy with 5 fae/myst instead. Seeing as I knew you didn't have a cf with me it was obvious that you did that setup despite not having the cf's necessary to make it playable. This means 2 things 1) the kd playing it is super bad to the point where they don't even realize how weak that setup is early. or 2)They are so cocky that they don't think it matters. You guys fit either of those better than anyone else.

Ultimately you could only be AMA, BB, or you guys and we wanted to war all 3 so why wouldn't we wave you? The fact that you were so unprepared in build/military training just made it more clear who you were.

[Godly]

We thought it would only be 2 days. If it's 5 days, it's ridiculous and not worth it. If they felt so strongly about it, they could have issued the same warning they did against FWs. But to go last round saying resetting is not a violation to this round it being a violation is absurd.

It wasn't insta win because of the aid. It was insta win because they had 0 tpa and no defense on their provs. How do you think we're still winning 17 vs 25 after losing everything we "abused."

I acknowledge that 100% of the actions I take in this game are meant to give me a massive advantage and be hurtful to everyone else on the server. Welcome to competition.

[Zauper]

Palem, to be fair, without fed military and no actioning it would have been a 100% win vs pyro. The difference between running 8k mindef with actual thieves and 4k as median def without thieves is too massive oop.

Here's the issue, Palem -- How does anyone know if a mechanic exists to deter you from doing something, or if it exists because doing the thing it is supposed to deter you from doing is actionable? As opposed to a mechanic being put in place to prevent you from being able to abuse a different mechanic. Like, that seems like a silly reason to put a mechanic in place, if it's purely for deterrent purposes. Seems you'd be better off just saying 'this thing is actionable' the way they did with FWs instead of trying to put in place a deterrent and then deciding that the built in deterrent wasn't enough.

Why was it ok to 'pay to win' wars last age, but not ok for us to reset provs this age? What if we now did exactly what they did last age, that Bishop said was ok -- would we be actioned for it? releasing, aiding out all the resources on our chained provs and resetting.

(and yes CJ, they aided out gc too. Less gc than it takes to train the sols they aided out).

I also want to know why, if the answer to "is this ok" is "ask bishop", why bishop doesn't respond to whether any of the things I mentioned were game abuse or not. Does that mean I should assume they are? Or does it mean that I should assume they aren't? Because some of them are things that we might do, and so we'd like to know.

[faegan]

It's hawks server, and if you don't like it, noone is forcing you to use it?

1. Via your logic: Utopia is Bishop's game.
2. This reads as an admittance of guilt.
3. There's nothing worse than a server admin spying on users for personal gain.

People should take note of munk's words here.
If munk ever offers you the services of munkbot or the use of his browser plugin, be aware that all (self)intel will be registered and possibly exploited for his own and perhaps his kingdom's benefit.

Then to think that at one point I thought of you as "fair and reasonable".... Keep the QQ coming, I love forum drama

[munk]

I'm saying u knew its hawks server, there has never been any stories of Leaks and if u still don't like it then don't use it. I offer services for free and have been since 2004 - if u don't trust me don't use it. Many seem happy to trust me and get a good system incl several ghettos. I have never abused that trust, ask around.

[Palem]

Here's the issue, Palem -- How does anyone know if a mechanic exists to deter you from doing something, or if it exists because doing the thing it is supposed to deter you from doing is actionable? Like, that seems like a silly reason to put a mechanic in place, if it's purely for deterrent purposes. Seems you'd be better off just saying 'this thing is actionable' the way they did with FWs instead of trying to put in place a deterrent and then deciding that the built in deterrent wasn't enough.

Because resetting your provinces (i.e. the act of purchasing an reset and then using it) is not against the rules. It's the motive behind doing so that's the issue and actively trying abuse the mechanics to secure an advantage.

The new protection system spawned a lot of issues that they're trying to work out. They had to patch the allocation system mid-age because it was being abused so terribly. The dev team doesn't WANT their mechanics being abused and assuming that they do ignorant. It says it right in the patch announcement

This update is to prevent abuse of the games reset/respawn province function combined with the new 24 hour protection period.

At some point the responsibility has to partially fall on the players to give the devs an little slack and actively abuse things that are clearly in the process of being worked out.

[Nick_mi]

I like the part where Palem reasons pay to win as bad in a game that has sitting(pay for it of course)

[Zauper]

Because resetting your provinces (i.e. the act of purchasing an reset and then using it) is not against the rules. It's the motive behind doing so that's the issue and actively trying abuse the mechanics to secure an advantage.

The new protection system spawned a lot of issues that they're trying to work out. They had to patch the allocation system mid-age because it was being abused so terribly. The dev team doesn't WANT their mechanics being abused and assuming that they do ignorant. It says it right in the patch announcement


At some point the responsibility has to partially fall on the players to give the devs an little slack and actively abuse things that are clearly in the process of being worked out.

Conveniently, we fell within both the new 24h 'no reset post aid' window and the 72h 'reset in war' window, which should mean that we're safe from both sets of abuse.

Is soldier swapping abuse? Homes pumping?

[Palem]

You can win without buying sitting. That's not pay-to-win.

[faegan]

We were aided 1k soldiers but we had all our defense and thieves released on some chained provinces , the chained provinces had 6-8k defense with tpa, but woke up to land defense and quad taps by pyro. Sounds like the moderator is placing handicap on purpose. He could have waited to release the numbers fairly, but no *screw you guys because I have the power*. Dosent stop us though , we know we are killing this with 18 functionable provinces. One can only wonder what would happen if it was on 25 v 25. If we did not aid , we gain two more Undeads , which has the potential to snowball in oop wars especially against a kd with no tpa and measly 4k defense. Go Cr!!

Wait what? This just got better! You created 2 human tacticians for the sole purpose of ToG (Human) and +800 soldiers (Tactician), cleared out the resources with probably maximum ToG in protection and intended to replace the two with UNDEAD TACTICIANS by paying for the reset? And you really never thought for a second that this was against the rules?
Sheeesh! Everyone knows pay-2-win would kill Utopia even faster than ****play. So why on earth would you travel that path? Kinda shows how much you truly know about this game, eh Godly? Guess you're never oldschool enough to learn...

[Zauper]

to replace the two with UNDEAD TACTICIANS by paying for the reset? And you really never thought for a second that this was against the rules?

Was it against the rules when Sanc and BB decided to reset provs into fae in consecutive ages because they realized fae made for a better setup?

Was it against the rules when we reset a prov during protection because we realized he had the wrong personality?

[faegan]

I'm saying u knew its hawks server, there has never been any stories of Leaks and if u still don't like it then don't use it. I offer services for free and have been since 2004 - if u don't trust me don't use it. Many seem happy to trust me and get a good system incl several ghettos. I have never abused that trust, ask around.

Point taken, can't verify though :)

[Nick_mi]

Was it against the rules when Sanc and BB decided to reset provs into fae in consecutive ages because they realized fae made for a better setup?

Was it against the rules when we reset a prov during protection because we realized he had the wrong personality?

You paid to win. So yes.

[Palem]

Was it against the rules when Sanc and BB decided to reset provs into fae in consecutive ages because they realized fae made for a better setup?

Was it against the rules when we reset a prov during protection because we realized he had the wrong personality?

Both of those things fall into the reasons that the reset button was put into place. Namely "Oh ****, we made a mistake. Sure would be nice if we could just fix it real quick rather than deleting and having to pay for a whole new invite back into the kingdom." and not the reason of "Hmm, I bet we could pump a ton of extra resources into a few provinces if we spent the entire protection just acting as a farm and then resetting into suitable provinces."

[Proteus]

honestly its laughable if havoc is mad at pyro for being actioned, i would have reported cr myself if they were silly enough to pull a stunt like that in my war. leson here is any time you do something to abuse mechanics and use themin a way other than what they were intended, you can expect to be actioned.

perfect case in point was before at end of war your army would come home immediately. there was a guy who suicided in war for huge gains, wd right after and immediately 2x razed an enemy cow oow, this was actioned and mechanic was fixed. reseting provinces is meant to let you change race/pers per age or during age but at cost of having to start over again, its not mean to generate free resources to be aid bombed over and over.