Sounds like business as usual.Originally Posted by Godly
Sounds like business as usual.
Everything in this game is open to interpretation, abs has allways been on the forefront of that opinion, if not in words than in practice.
They redifined so many rules and weaseled out of so many bad actions its not even funny, allways to their benefit.
Only difference flooger broke one cause he belives they desrved it, when they do it its allways wraped up in 100 pages of forums posts explaining apple is not really an apple ... its actually been a pear all this time.
He did it opently and does not wraps it up in excuses, I respect that.
Sheister,
I didn't deny anything that was true. I admitted and apologized for Emeriti's failure to live up to their own standards and the standards of utopia by advising a friend to force a cf by hitting into post war. The parts I did deny (and still do) are related to wrong claims including those claiming that emeriti sent Outsiders after Pyro and Meep after BB, that Emeriti organized a farm war for themselves with the kingdom who waved them, and that Bours hits were made to help Emeriti. All of these false accusations can be refuted simply by thinking about the logic of them all. Nesta13 himself said that Outsiders were a farm war for Pyro but pyro messed up internally and that resulted in them having to wd up in land instead of getting the win. Why would Emeriti want Pyro to get a farm war? Likewise, BB warred oop and was a solid #2 thanks to the war. Why would Emeriti want this? Accusations of Emeriti farming gold into your war were just LOL and I doubt those in Pyro lieing about it even believed that at all.
As for Bour, why would he try and peacefully cf first if his goal was to help Emeriti? Why would he offer all land back plus more for a cf at the time he razed if it was to help Emeriti? Why would he then up his offer to all land back plus more plus free gc to help fat Bb prep for Emeriti? This simply does not help Emeriti at all and all of his actions clearly point to one thing -- trying to get a cf for himself. Emeriti did advise him to threaten to raze to get a cf and also to raze if they wouldn't cf him. This is what Emeriti did wrong and admits to and apologizes for, but it was no "FSU" attempt. The FSU kingdoms that have waved Emeriti to help other top kingdoms refuse to give any land they took back and generally refuse to cf. Bour's attempt to get himself a cf was nothing liek that.
The deal between Emeriti was not made on any deception from Emeriti. Flogger claimed it was at first but was caught lieing about that and later admitted that he knew who bour was when he made the deal and he made the deal with the intention of breaking it. I also would like to reiterate that BB had multiple offers from bour that were sitting on the table the whole time asking for a cf and offering all land back plus more free acres. No one forced Bb to reject Bour's cf offers and BB was always free to take the free land and not had their position relative to Emeriti damaged.
You say that those pretending to be without fault and 100% clean are wrong and should remain silent. I can only assume you are directing this at BB since they are the only ones I've seen that repeatedly pretend that they are perfect despite all of those that point out specifics of when they were **** played by BB. If so then I applaud your integrity to call your ally out on their dishonesty.
Last edited by AquaSeaFoam; 20-06-2015 at 22:08.
Damn in all the alliance wars ive been in, i dont think we ever had half the accusations and discussions about he said this or he said that.
Hell even Jaco would admit " normally " what actually happened or what he did to start it. NHA/VBI didnt have this much discussion with all the kds involved then.
Monsters
Fighting the world back Proudly since Age 35
#MONSTERS
No ASF, I refer to the Emeriti personnel who claimed that Emeriti was 100% clean as a whistle while spitting on pyro (and me directly because I play in pyro) and BB. That is not an act of contrition or responsibility.
The gold I referred to was not on emeriti's part, it was on pyro's part last age as we have discussed.
Before we go into the difference between members and leadership, please note that I, as a mere member, am being painted with all the actions of the leadership of pyro in all occasions by members of Emeriti. Ergo, I can likewise paint them with conspiracy and Emeriti's shady play.
ASF, I can't speak for Bour or his mind. All I can say is there is a clear log where there is a conspiracy to use Bour in a manner consistent with what actually occurred. In any court, that's good enough for conspiracy. It meets the planning and substantial step tests. You may recall from the materials posted on conspiracy that Emeriti chose not to use any of the actions that would provide for a defense to conspiracy and have waived many of them through statements and actions since.
Your sole argument is that you made an offer that to your mind should have been sufficient. Others disagree. To support the argument you say "others have done worse things". Those things were actioned to the satisfaction of the dev's, or the aggrieved parties. To date, this one has not yet.
Last edited by Sheister; 20-06-2015 at 22:30.
"having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
"while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date
The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.
I can only agree with godly than flogger has set a sad precedent where it's fine to deal break. I've found it sad that flogger and bb have spent their goodwill they collected over the ages on it, but flogger's history with abs and losing to them last age seems to have caused him to act contrary to his reasonable self. Maybe his douchy partner protector convinced him.
It's a sad way to waste an age imo - I'm bored.
I agree that this is boring.
I don't think flogger/BB have spent all their goodwill. I think they are earning new goodwill. At present, from my personal perspective, they will stand to lose goodwill if they accept the proposals submitted to date. Given that they have lost the goodwill of Emeriti, there is nothing for them to gain at present by accepting the proposals.
I used to believe that there was goodwill to preserve, but as these conversations have dragged on both in this forum and in IRC, I realize there never really was to begin with. I therefore call the goodwill loss argument a smokescreen to obfuscate the fact that there has never really been true good faith on the part of Emeriti because it is demonstrable from the logs that Emeriti was always willing to entertain the conspiracy outlined in the logs.
"having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
"while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date
The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.
Any serious top player can understand why it hurts the value of future top deals when flogger can deal break without consequence. Especially when at its core it seems to be about settling old scores and last age's loss.
.donate
Any reasonable person should be able to understand that use of deception and a conspiracy to obtain a deal invalidates the deal.
"having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
"while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date
The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.
#oddplay11
What does last age's loss have anything to do with anything? I've lost tons of wars. Its not our side that felt entitled to be able to do whatever it wanted without consequence. #narrative
Last edited by flogger; 20-06-2015 at 22:55.
Breaking news. Munk & Godly newest addition to abs fanboy club. Next to come. Elit and Anri.
**************** The republic of China ****************
It most certainly is your side that feels this way. Emeriti offered reasonable consequences (i.e. whatever bb felt needed to fix their position). Again, Emeriti didn't even touch you and certainly didn't deal break you. A solo province did in part at Emeriti's advice on how to get a cf. Had you just given him that cf there would ahve never been a problem. Even after he hit, he still immediately offered all land and more back for a cf well before you had any idea who he was. You lie about and deny the facts until they are proven and then once they are you try and ignore them. While it may not be considered "nice" to advise a "farm" on how to get a cf with you, it's not even close to the "worst stuff" in Utopia and is done all the time by top kingdoms. Still Emeriti apologized and offered whatever was needed to fix it for BB (yes Emeriti giving their own cow land to bb for a prov in a different kd trying to cf you is a consequence.)
BB are the ones that broke their word, their official deal they agreed to, waved and dragoned into a war, and more. Now it's BB who insists that they take no consequences whatsoever for their dishonorable play that was completely unnecessary and unjustified. So once again, your statement above is clearly a lie since yes it is your side who thinks they can do whatever they want without consequences.
Also waht does your massive farm out to Emeriti despite starting 10% bigger and you also getting owned by them the age before despite having stocked an extra weeks worth of gc have to do with anything? Well your fear of fighting Emeriti 1v1 in any sort of fair fight seems to be one of your driving factors in your demands from the start. That coupled with your long stated desire to beat Absalom in an awar seem to be your main motivating factors in all of this.
Last edited by AquaSeaFoam; 20-06-2015 at 23:21.
eh?? Now you're outright lying, sheister. I'm not in the LS channel and have never pretended to know what gets discussed there. Stop making sh*t up.
so I take it you don't apologize and agree ya deserve it?
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