Proposal to end he Awar

[Heiney]

I would like to clarify some of the confusion regarding Pandas and Sillies CF.

The CF deal was made long before any of this, Sillies told us they only grew to war WSK, that the top 1 was never their objective. We told them it was good, since both kds had good relations, that we didn't set for top 1 either, were mostly on a war age, even if having extreme difficulty in finding them.

Later we decided to wave 8:11, after we noticed that they changed their one way razes into a third party war and their monarch hit Sleepy. 8:11 was tagged CF or War as well and being the only kd in our range who was available and with an interesting setup allied to an agressive attitude, we decided to send a partial wave to tempt them to war.

They informed us that they were still involved in the awar and we reached a CF deal with 8:11 alone.

No other deal was made with any other kd nor about the AWAR. We did inform all parties and CJ was aware of it aswell, that we had no interest in the awar and were remaining neutral as we were until then.

Some days later we became aware of new developments and information, that changed the way many felt about this awar. The entry of other kds with whom with had friendly relations joined allied to the new facts, made us decide that we should participate in this awar.

Sillies were worried we would get a lot of land and get our way to top 1, to which we stated again that being top 1 was not our objective, if it happened it would be nice, but never an objective. Something I believe that could not be more clear by the fact that we joined an awar, a type of conflict that is certainly not the best strategy to grow.

I have never seen anyone defending that participating in a conflict vs several kds, with trading attacks, razes, bounces, all the ops from various sides, would be a good strategy to get your way to the top. I truly believe this to be one of the most awful ways to try and win ages, but I strongly advise kds that believe its possible to try it if we are in a age fighting for the top 1, because I believe it would make our life easier.

Accusing Pandas of using this awar to grow or to run from a CF deal, is just not fair and incorrect, since should we want to take advantage of the situation, we would never take part on this war and use the time to grow easily oow and explore safely.

This by no means is equal to anyone accusing Sillies and CJ of taking advantage of this situation, but it is clearly an optimal position to be if you want to and are in a good spot to go for the top 1.

1) Based on a stray hit, you concluded they were not in an AWAR and made 60 over razes count for nothing. Even if you were given the benefit of the doubt that you want to "tempt" them into war, why would you ask for an additional 3.5k acres for CF and allow them to continue in their awar?

2) Sillies was never worried that you would gain a lot of land in the AWAR. We were more concerned that we gave a CF because you said you were not going to join the AWAR, therefore we were fine giving extra time to prep and war at a later date. Had we known that you were going to join the AWAR, our actions might have been very different. We MIGHT have waved you right on the spot instead of letting you take your free acres from meep. This being said, no one from your side replied to my question that none of the alliance would step in/ interfere if we ever notice you after the AWAR. Again we will give you the benefit of the doubt that you hated abs and felt very strongly about joining.

[lampost]

We didn't feel like quitting the game watching your alliance blatantly cheat and chart shape, we decided to destroy your alliance instead. Coward.

You felt like making complete false accusations that your own side realized were utter lies.

[bombdigie]

All I see is a bunch of abs alliance cry babies, "It's not fair! You ruined our age! We planned everything so perfectly and you had to ruin everything!"

[citadela01]

I phase out whenever ASF starts repeating his mantra, its not even intentional decision ... i just find myself skipping everything else in that particular post and move onward to next one.

[bombdigie]

You felt like making complete false accusations that your own side realized were utter lies.

Until you prove otherwise, everything you say is false. Everything I said is genuine. Your only defense is "coincidence". Okay keep telling yourselves that, maybe you will eventually believe it.

[lampost]

All I see is a bunch of abs alliance cry babies, "It's not fair! You ruined our age! We planned everything so perfectly and you had to ruin everything!"

No crying. Just bb and mates causing an awar and breaking deals over things that should be resolved diplomatically. Which even when it ends will possibly cause long term damage.

You however are on a level of your own. Making blatantly false accusations that your own side admit to be wrong just because you feel like it. Then having the audacity to be so proud of those false accusations.

[Palem]

Let's act like grown ups.

[lampost]

Until you prove otherwise, everything you say is false. Everything I said is genuine. Your only defense is "coincidence". Okay keep telling yourselves that, maybe you will eventually believe it.

No the onus is on you, to prove your outrageous claims. And its funny that PYRO was established and officially CONFIRMED as cheaters last age.

Established rule breakers do not have the right to make claims based off what pops into the head one sunny morning.

Aside from this, your own side says your talking a load of nonsense.

[AquaSeaFoam]

flogger, citadela01, I repeat those facts because most of the arguments coming from your side are based off ignoring those facts and don't hold any water in light of the facts. Your side conveniently tries to ignore or even lie about these facts since most all of your points fall apart when they are considered.

If people claim we didn't offer reasonable reparations to whatever BB needed, then I'll repeat the fact that we did. If people claim that bour was out to "FSU" bb, then I will point out how he tried to cf before any hits and offered all land plus extra free land back at the time he did hit and offered extras to ensure BB wasn't hurt if he could just get his cf.

[Judge]

O Flogger,

Lets say that we do what you ask us to. raze down our banks and dont go above acre cap as we instigated a thought to hit in eowcf in bour's mind.

Then we should even make sure that Pandamodium, BB, Jerks, pyro and the other kds should also be razed down and stay below an acre cap as even they have blatantly broken all CF's and have been hitting in eowcf and active wars?

[Aranfein]

ASF, I cant understand how you can personally claim such thing regarding EoWCFs, i feel the supporters you have and the actual respect people have for you makes those claims open a whole can of worms in regards to future EoWCFs...

I am of the belief that EoWCFs should be treated as sacred because a kingdom just finishing a war should be able to relax for the 96hrs (if they so choose) to recover and rebuild their kingdom, anything else is cowardly and totally dishonourable when it comes to a game like utopia.

Also you didnt advice Bour that he "could" hit into EoWCF with razes you adviced him he "should", there is a huge difference here, also i can understand your the face of Emeriti, your diplomatic skills and calmness makes for good solid debates, however i think hearing from Dorje, Cerebrus etc. that all thought it was a fine idea to hit into EoWCF should respond, without some prediscussed copy/paste line.

Furthermore your offer to sort the situation was in my eyes fair and personally i would probs have accepted it, but given the fact those it was done to have a long history of feeling wronged by numerous things Abs has done but also can decide for themselves what would be a fair solution to the whole issue would be..

I heard Flogger & Co, requested you stepped out of the growth race for the age to solve this, which you declined? They have counter negotiated but neither side wants to give in because your both stubborn as mules.

If a solution could be made that benefits all the kingdoms on one side as you cant just expect to negotiate with BB and the "awar" is over, there is far more to it then that, I am not sure if its the same for your side (kingdoms).

Its true Abs is no more, but everyone sees you and Emeriti as the face of Abs, especially now Zauper has joined you, its like the collective kingdoms of Abs in 1.. So yea people will not let things go easy thats built over the many ages where Abs has powerplayed their way to securing the top for god knows how many ages.


I remember when i first came back, we talking 2007/2008, i created a Human, that went top top5 and i held this all the way to YR11 or YR12, suddenly everyone in top 16 decided to hit me, i wondered why and defended myself as good as i could, i wasnt really keeping eye on who was at the top at the time as i had rejoined to relax and get to enjoy the game again.

I find out the top 15 was all the top Abs kingdoms having Humans too, and i was the only eye sore in the top and from a ghetto at that (think i was 14k acres or so), by the time the age finished YR13? i was down to mid 25's on ranking and Abs held the top, basically i had been targetted by 3 or 4 Abs kingdoms because i had a human in the top, thats powerplay and thats what people remember, so just keep that in mind.

[Judge]

Also flogger why didnt you action pyro when they blatantly farmed millions of gcs from CJ's kd in the war against us? Why double standards? Or is it that you didnt action cos they are your allies?

[Korp]

Also flogger why didnt you action pyro when they blatantly farmed millions of gcs from CJ's kd in the war against us? Why double standards? Or is it that you didnt action cos they are your allies?

Did you action them? :(

[flogger]

flogger, citadela01, I repeat those facts because most of the arguments coming from your side are based off ignoring those facts and don't hold any water in light of the facts. Your side conveniently tries to ignore or even lie about these facts since most all of your points fall apart when they are considered.

If people claim we didn't offer reasonable reparations to whatever BB needed, then I'll repeat the fact that we did. If people claim that bour was out to "FSU" bb, then I will point out how he tried to cf before any hits and offered all land plus extra free land back at the time he did hit and offered extras to ensure BB wasn't hurt if he could just get his cf.

"facts"

[Judge]

Did you action them? :(

We actually defeated them even with the GC farming?