The bottom is hot

[beans]

Clearly Divinity was under the impression that they had an EOA CF with you guys. You obviously knew they believed that.
In this case, why not inform them that they are mistaken so that they can renegotiate?
Exploiting loopholes in contracts that go against the spirit of the contract is one of the lowest things you can do, whether it be in Utopia or in real life. Using that sort of behaviour to justify your actions is like saying "I didn't mean to kill him, I just wanted him to never walk again".

its not a loophole because it was not ambiguous, our terms were clearly stated and they were not met. This was not a contract between two parties amibically working together, they waved two times and told us to offer an EOA CF or they would keep waving us. This deal was more like a hostile take over of a corporation, and we were under no obligation to point out to them the obvious fact that 8 comes after 7.

[Smitty87]

Funny how you're leaving out the fact divinity approached you <24 hours before you dealbroke to arrange a war.

Here you are saying how you want a war on even terms bla bla bla. You're full of ****. We asked you for war a day before you broke cf and we were negotiating terms. Instead of the "fair" war you're preaching about you decide to break cf.

That coupled with the fact you tried to arrange a fake war earlier just shows what type of kd you are.

Stop trying to spin lies and face the facts. You broke cf because you're too crap to war on even terms against a good kd.

[Fire]

DRAMA!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!

[p0ngkol]

Clearly Divinity was under the impression that they had an EOA CF with you guys. You obviously knew they believed that.
In this case, why not inform them that they are mistaken so that they can renegotiate?
Exploiting loopholes in contracts that go against the spirit of the contract is one of the lowest things you can do, whether it be in Utopia or in real life. Using that sort of behaviour to justify your actions is like saying "I didn't mean to kill him, I just wanted him to never walk again".

so how can a kd who really believes theyre in a eoacf still keep doing intel even on tms? since that first cf was up, theyve been doing intels all along. whats with the constant checking?

[Aranfein]

Protector, your comment is hypocracy if you think back on last age, i like how your stance switch to suit friends. Maybe try and stick to what you say no matter if its friends or not.. You know what im talking about so i wont repeat it here, just keep that in mind when you wish to be the "Law, Jury and Judge"...

[Korp]

Rich coming from you Aranfein. :)

[Child]

so how can a kd who really believes theyre in a eoacf still keep doing intel even on tms? since that first cf was up, theyve been doing intels all along. whats with the constant checking?

No idea, I'm not part of the KD.

This attitude towards agreements is in part what has created your poor reputation. It's the same issue as you claiming that offering a mintime withdrawal is not a fake war. You're abusing technicalities instead of honouring the spirit of the agreement/laws.
If that's how you want to live your life, fine, but don't expect anyone to think highly of you for it. I certainly don't believe that going against the spirit of an agreement is the right thing to do, legal or not.

[beans]

Funny how you're leaving out the fact divinity approached you <24 hours before you dealbroke to arrange a war.

Here you are saying how you want a war on even terms bla bla bla. You're full of ****. We asked you for war a day before you broke cf and we were negotiating terms. Instead of the "fair" war you're preaching about you decide to break cf.

That coupled with the fact you tried to arrange a fake war earlier just shows what type of kd you are.

Stop trying to spin lies and face the facts. You broke cf because you're too crap to war on even terms against a good kd.

Not trolling at all when i say this: post logs. as you might have guessed I am not heaven so if you messaged him asking for war I didnt get it (my "leadership" status is as a strategist, I never deal with diplo). If you guys did offer us a fair war deal before we waved you then I seriously regret we didnt take it, all that most of the kd wanted out of the rest of the age was another war. This wouldnt change the facts regarding the CF deal /conditions (ie offering us war doesnt turn a non legitimate eoa CF into a legitimate one) but it is of great interest to me BC this is the first I am hearing of any war offer from you guys. So... if you got logs post them pls. Thanks.

[p0ngkol]

Stop trying to spin lies and face the facts. You broke cf because you're too crap to war on even terms against a good kd.

dude, you should totally check this out.

We turned them down because an arranged war with them on their terms is a 100% loss for us unless they are just bad/active....if they want to fight we'll gladly do it but we're going to use all the tools the game provides and use our setup to full advantage not just agree to get into a war to be in a war. (Letting them catch up in size and pump before we "start hostile" i'd say is closer to 60-40 for them, but for those that care as to why its 100% win with instant push see me in irc;.... hint setup x beats setup y sometimes with semi evenly matched kds :P)

fyi, thats from your monarch. so now i wonder how we can war on even terms just like you said when hey you took advantage and waved us while we were in pump builds? and well we were confident in pump build because there was a cf put up supposedly for negotiations. man we somehow had trust even with the constant intels on us.

[citadela01]

Personally I despise using semantics and wordplay to twist spirit of agreement. It is one of the worst things practiced in Utopia, sadly it has become standard behavior.
But it DID become standard behavior, its pretty sad to hear KD's are ganging up on on somebody who only practiced same obscene "laws" said KD's use and abuse daily in their dealings.
Once again, personal integrity in Utopia takes a backseat to petty interests.

[Smitty87]

dude, you should totally check this out.

fyi, thats from your monarch. so now i wonder how we can war on even terms just like you said when hey you took advantage and waved us while we were in pump builds? and well we were confident in pump build because there was a cf put up supposedly for negotiations. man we somehow had trust even with the constant intels on us.

Read Persians logs.

You wanted instant declare.
You wanted no AW or chaining of TMs/massacres on TMs.
You wanted to wd min time so you got a loss and kds below would war you.

That's a clear fake war.

We wanted:
Hostilities start at xx/Yy.
Anything goes.

I'm not a genius but to me it doesn't sound like you wanted a fair war at all.

facts are you wanted a fake war, you got caught out and waved (into full fort with 0 massacres) as a lesson for trying to arrange one.

And now to top it off you break an eoacf because it's the only chance you'de have to beat us.
Bravo

[p0ngkol]

No idea, I'm not part of the KD.

This attitude towards agreements is in part what has created your poor reputation. It's the same issue as you claiming that offering a mintime withdrawal is not a fake war. You're abusing technicalities instead of honouring the spirit of the agreement/laws.
If that's how you want to live your life, fine, but don't expect anyone to think highly of you for it. I certainly don't believe that going against the spirit of an agreement is the right thing to do, legal or not.

thats rich of you to say coming from a monarch who has little difficulty in upholding war terms.

[TheOne]

Good daily morning reading :)

Lol. Is beans heaven/Bart? Did he change name again?

Never had a good impression of bart lol. Comes across to me as a utopia star wannabe who tries too hard in the wrong ways. It was funny how he thought he had a great diplomatic success by being a dickhead in negotiations with me like a few days before eoa last age, and I just decided to be lazy and not wave his kd for a few days for lols but instead cf till eoa (Cause crazies won't have caught cr). Could totally imagine him bluffing himself 'yesss I got a eoa cf because I managed to threaten to hit crazies low def provs etc' lolol.

This will ruffle a few feathers, but Spartans was the kd that got gc aided after most of their wars last age to rebuild asap. Inclusive of drake funds.

Have no province in game atm, but just looking at the logs that pertain posted... if Spartans don't have any other logs other than what persain posted. Oh well.

#obvious

[Child]

thats rich of you to say coming from a monarch who has little difficulty in upholding war terms.

If you recall, we were unable to stick to the terms set by a player that then left our KD. We then renegotiated terms that you were happy with and proceeded with the war despite seeing no real chance of winning.
What we could have done is said we were double hostiled and thus the war deal is nullified (it was a clause in there) but we're not like that (since it was our own fault the KD hit us). You were just taking advantage of us having a leader that had no idea how to do diplo.

[protector]

""loop·hole
ˈlo͞opˌ(h)ōl/Submit
noun
1.
an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules. """

Nothing at all ambiguous about #2 on a 3 point list saying specifically NO LATER THAN THE 7TH. Assuming we all can count to 8 then we all should be able to tell whether or not 8th is later then the 7th.

here is another excerpt of a definition for you: legal contract- "The basic elements of a contract are mutual assent, consideration, capacity, and legality." You see the part in there about mutual assent? that is how **** works in the real world. One party is not allowed to alter the terms of a contract with out mutual assent.

When dicks broke cf and waved us we asked why they would break a cf and wave during negotiations we were told that we didnt specify terms and have to diplo better if we want to avoid getting waved. Well guess what, they aint as good as diplo as they thought. If they had taken the CF by the 7th I guarantee you 100% we would not have touched them all age (we would have waited till next age). But they treated us like assholes AND clearly did not meet one of the very few conditions we gave them for our EOA CF offer so we are free to wave them with out it being a deal break. If other kds want to jump in thats fine, although if they are breaking EOA CFs to do it then that is on them... Us breaking a cf that was accepted after our offer expired is no excuse for others to break valid eoa cfs.

No matter what fancy stuff you copy paste from a dictionary, it doesn't change the fact you're just nitpicking. Looking for an absurd reason to justify your actions. No sane person would make an issue about it.