Super Theif. Need Advice!

[Persain]

there is no cap on prop gains, and you cant max aw gains against any mystic until you have already aw'd enough wizards.. those are what a rogue should be doing in wars (bank fights or other organized efforts aside), so thats what really matters..

Riots is also dependent on tpa sent, and from what i've seen there's really not that much of a cap. A good rogue should be rioting harder targets too.

I find it hard to believe that there is not a max percent of total. Sometimes targets are training and have small numbers at home. Can you take all of them? I usually get single digits.

last sims we ran i remember there being no cap. Its more like how science works with "soft caps" meaning if u say took 10% troops with 6 raw u'd need 24 raw to take 20%. Realistically though you aren't taking more than 10% of someones units/op and u need to be sending like 6+ tpa to do that which means more tpa is almost always better. Similarly mod tpa has such a large effect on success rate that i like t/m's to run 6+ tpa if they plan to op enemy t/m's at all even after sending a sapphire dragon.

Now actually talking strategy

In my current war and in the one before the faeries are not logging in very much. I am just stealing runes. I am attacking too so I did not have room for excessive TPA. But I believe robbing towers had a greater effect in these two specific wars.

this can/will be done in a good deal of wars. However one should never PLAN for this to be all a rogue does/can do unless its an oop war against a magic heavy kd. If u plan to only steal runes but need real ops its going to cost you a ton and if your setup is designed to have rogues doing rune control only you should change your setup and replace it with a sage/mystic/merchant.

And finally i'll address this

The max gain per thief on AW is 1% (just checked). It has been years since I checked (actually years since someone replied and told me their WPA) but I remember max damage as 0.5%. So If I have, for example, raw TPA 5.0 then I max gains on anything with less than 10 wizards per my acres (WpmA?). I am thinking this is quite rare. Raw TPA 6.0 should be able to AW a mage 20% larger with raw WPA 10.0. If raw WPA really is higher than that attackers should dispose by overpopulation. Rob towers or sabotage would help limit land lust.

You can do more than 1% damage to enemy wizzards per op in war...so the rest of this is kinda pointless

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

Riots is also dependent on tpa sent, and from what i've seen there's really not that much of a cap. A good rogue should be rioting harder targets too.

yeah ofc, i totally forgot that :)

[pathetic sheep]

Riots is also dependent on tpa sent, and from what i've seen there's really not that much of a cap. A good rogue should be rioting harder targets too.

Are you sure? I thought it was percent of TPA sent. When I had 4 TPA raw I got short riots with 1, medium with 2, and long sending all. Got the same length riots after doubling my acres.

You can do more than 1% damage to enemy wizzards per op in war...so the rest of this is kinda pointless

Can you give an example? Thieves sent wizards killed.

When I posted that I believe I sent about 5760 thieves and killed 53 then 2880 and killed 26. A day old survey had 11.2% watchtowers and 69.4% BE. That actually does work out to more than 1%. Does round off to 1%.

So raw TPA might as well be lower.

I'll get better data next war.

[beans]

Are you sure? I thought it was percent of TPA sent. When I had 4 TPA raw I got short riots with 1, medium with 2, and long sending all. Got the same length riots after doubling my acres.

Its definitely dependant on # of thieves sent. hybrids/mystics sending 100% thieves for riots get far less length than a rogue sending 100% thieves for a riot. I think this is even independent of tpa mods, relying solely or primarily on raw # of thieves (however I am less sure of this as it is harder to test).

[Persain]

Are you sure? I thought it was percent of TPA sent. When I had 4 TPA raw I got short riots with 1, medium with 2, and long sending all. Got the same length riots after doubling my acres.

yes, im sure. the more theives u send the longer the riots. I've had people recently do **Current longest Riot of 22 days set by *** I've seen closer to 30 days too.

Can you give an example? Thieves sent wizards killed.

When I posted that I believe I sent about 5760 thieves and killed 53 then 2880 and killed 26. A day old survey had 11.2% watchtowers and 69.4% BE. That actually does work out to more than 1%. Does round off to 1%.

So raw TPA might as well be lower.

I'll get better data next war.

i mean u can kill more than 1% of their wizzards. Given your data lets use the approximation 5760/53=~109, and 2880/26=~111 to just round and make math easy to say that 100 theives sent kills 1 wizard given the WT in your example. That makes for some really easy math.

That is IF the max damage you could do per op was 1% of the targets wpa you need the same tpa as they have wpa to be doing maximum damage. Remember that adding in wt wont lower the damage cap it just lowers the damage you recieve/theif sent. So the fact that your on 4 tpa means u are doing quite a bit less damage/op than someone on 6.5 tpa would be doing if oping any kind of real mystic starting on 7+ raw wpa. Note that the max damage you can do/op as a theif is higher than 1% by a decent margine, enough so that if your oping even a 3 or 4 raw mystic your not going to ever hit that cap unless going insanely high in tpa.

[noobium]

I think the cap on AW is like 1.4%, not including wt.

Most Mystics worth their salt are going to go heavy on wt if they fight Rogues, so the effective cap is closer to 1.1%.

The rough estimates for a single Rogue running AW comes out to something like 25% wizzies killed per 60 stealth, little more for Faes, if every AW connects and hits the cap, so for a kingdom with a limited number of Rogues it will take quite a bit of AW to really wreck a mage's spellcasting ability (and the mage can still target fattening attackers, and still has an army to contend with... even a fairly bad kingdom can implement contingency plans for their Mystics).

If you are looking at a 3-4 day war and want to maximize your gains / utility, AW isn't always the best course of action to win in that timeframe, particularly against tough targets, and there is some utility in having more military on something like Half/Rogue. (I assumed Half/Rogue was the OP's superthief, but Fae/Rogue probably would want closer to 5-6 rTPA against Elves and other Faes.)

I'm guessing, like most players, OP realized that thieves aren't going to succeed 100% of their ops from the outset, and it isn't just ghettos that suffer from fails. (I suppose that depends on whether Simians counts as a ghetto, but I remember a quite hilarious thread a few ages back...)

[jwuzi]

^

Is this guy still allowed to post in the strategy forum?

25% of wiz killed is MASSIVE. Taking 6 rwpa to 4.5 is huge as it makes landing MS that might be 1/1 or 1/2 success into 1/2 -1/4 success rate. This is huge.
To do that in 60 stealth? - Well I guess first off, I want to know where he gets his numbers from, because this is also obviously wrong. 60 stealth can be regenerated in minimum 15hrs (+4stealth/tick for rogue) - this could also be 12hrs(+5stealth/tick for ha/rogue), so in a 48hr war to be able to take 25% of a mystic's raw wpa twice and call it ineffective is kinda absurd.

[noobium]

Well THIS has turned out well. Typical forum warrior horse****.

I'm not going to bother deconstructing any more, since OP has long since left (good for him).

[citadela01]

The fact "THIS", as u call it, keeps hapening to you should probably be taken as a hint.

[beans]

I think the cap on AW is like 1.4%, not including wt.

Most Mystics worth their salt are going to go heavy on wt if they fight Rogues, so the effective cap is closer to 1.1%.

The rough estimates for a single Rogue running AW comes out to something like 25% wizzies killed per 60 stealth, little more for Faes, if every AW connects and hits the cap, so for a kingdom with a limited number of Rogues it will take quite a bit of AW to really wreck a mage's spellcasting ability (and the mage can still target fattening attackers, and still has an army to contend with... even a fairly bad kingdom can implement contingency plans for their Mystics).

If you are looking at a 3-4 day war and want to maximize your gains / utility, AW isn't always the best course of action to win in that timeframe, particularly against tough targets, and there is some utility in having more military on something like Half/Rogue. (I assumed Half/Rogue was the OP's superthief, but Fae/Rogue probably would want closer to 5-6 rTPA against Elves and other Faes.)

I'm guessing, like most players, OP realized that thieves aren't going to succeed 100% of their ops from the outset, and it isn't just ghettos that suffer from fails. (I suppose that depends on whether Simians counts as a ghetto, but I remember a quite hilarious thread a few ages back...)

You make a good point, there isnt much utility in one province AWing a mystic. Unless that mystic is running a really low wpa to start it would take so long for AW to disable them that it wouldnt help the war effort. However if you have a bunch of rogues all unload stealth pools on GA/AW it can completely disable a mystic for the duration of the war.

[StratOcastle]

Well THIS has turned out well. Typical forum warrior horse****.

I'm not going to bother deconstructing any more, since OP has long since left (good for him).

Don't go away yourself. I'm capable of drawing knowledge from your comments. Thank you.

[Leonidas]

Are you sure? I thought it was percent of TPA sent. When I had 4 TPA raw I got short riots with 1, medium with 2, and long sending all. Got the same length riots after doubling my acres.

Riot duration is dependent on thieves sent per target acre. I got similar results to you as well, and I'm very certain it varies depending on the target province size. (It was also in a forum post).

[pathetic sheep]

^

Is this guy still allowed to post in the strategy forum?

25% of wiz killed is MASSIVE. Taking 6 rwpa to 4.5 is huge as it makes landing MS that might be 1/1 or 1/2 success into 1/2 -1/4 success rate. This is huge.

So you build a province that focuses on one specialized task. That task is to reduce one target province from 75% success to 37.5% success in one of the target's roles. But that failure happens only if the targets fail to adjust his/her choice of targets. This type of thing might work well ganging up. One on one kingdom vs kingdom it fails.

To do that in 60 stealth? - Well I guess first off, I want to know where he gets his numbers from, because this is also obviously wrong. 60 stealth can be regenerated in minimum 15hrs (+4stealth/tick for rogue) - this could also be 12hrs(+5stealth/tick for ha/rogue), so in a 48hr war to be able to take 25% of a mystic's raw wpa twice and call it ineffective is kinda absurd.

I believe Noobium refers to the opening shot of the war. If you go into the war with more than 70% stealth he does not think you are worth writing about. 70% to 10% is 60 stealth.

Many wars are decided in the first half of one day. The long close wars are great fun. But really the first 12 hours of your long war set that up. 2 good kingdoms get the long competitive war only because both kingdoms did not fail the opening.

this could also be 12hrs(+5stealth/tick for ha/rogue)

http://utopia-game.com/wol/chooser/age_details/
http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.php?title=Race

Riot duration is dependent on thieves sent per target acre. I got similar results to you as well, and I'm very certain it varies depending on the target province size. (It was also in a forum post).

Do you mean that it is "effected by relative province networth"? If it is "thieves sent per target acre" then bottom feeders will generate longer riots. I will test that on inactives over the weekend.

[Nightmare_]

So you build a province that focuses on one specialized task. That task is to reduce one target province from 75% success to 37.5% success in one of the target's roles. But that failure happens only if the targets fail to adjust his/her choice of targets. This type of thing might work well ganging up. One on one kingdom vs kingdom it fails.

Untrue