Differences between being SMALL and BIG

[lampost]

So, dont really want to bore you much, but there is not much going on in here. Besides we are all waiting for age end.

We hear the whole time the likes of zauper, prot and CP asking more kds to go for land and make it more competitive up there. The point of this thread is not to question the feasibility of this, rather to question how play differs from being at 20k acres to being at 3k acres.

So excuse my ignorance but, what do you do first after doing a big explore? Pump Science first? Wizards first? What buildings are more useful at 20k as opposed to 3k?

I guess some of it is obvious but it would be interesting to hear tips, and maybe (just maybe) some players will push their kds to fight uptop. I'm gonna talk less and let the guys who know what they are talking about, to comment (if they have time) so as to avoid looking too foolish myself :P

And Merry Christmas all.

[Palem]

A little off-topic, but you don't need to try and cow if you're going for more growth (i.e. a warring kingdom that's not trying to crown)

[pathetic sheep]

We hear the whole time the likes of zauper, prot and CP asking more kds to go for land and make it more competitive up there.

I do not believe it would make things more competitive. More people trying to get land would push more acres into large kingdoms. A deer is not any more competitive with a bear then a rabbit is competitive with a fox.

If you really want more competitive gaming start picking off individual provinces. Do not worry about gaining land, focus on destroying it. Get friends in small ghetto kingdoms to take your acres if you grow to close to the top kingdoms. Only cease-fire kingdoms who are hostile with much larger kingdoms. Land lust, nightstrikes, fireballs, and meteors do not move the hostility meter. Porcupines and skunks do alright against foxes and bear.

[beans]

The biggest difference in being big is not *directly* how YOU play, its the environment you play in. 90% of players fall in a fairly narrow land/nw range, while the 10% outside that cover huge ranges. This means if you stay average size you are in massive target pool and it takes very moderate skill to avoid being a lucrative target in such a pool. If you grow outside that average range then you very quickly become part of a very small target pool. The more you grow the smaller that target pool becomes and the more skilled the players in are in diplomacy and province management (typically).

This means that to run big provinces you dont just play a normal prov and just do it bigger, you have to adjust your province management to your target environment. Of kds/provs in your range who is in war or out of war, who do you have cfs with, what are these provs doing. In the larger sizes there are so few targets that CF management is very important, a big cow with no def that has good CF management can explore freely while another prov the same size might be UB but get bounced down to be hit if it doesnt have good cfs.

so more to your questions-
If you are growing but still plan on warring pump WPA first as it takes the longest and unlike military can not be boosted up last minute with resources from aid or robbing.

If you are growing but not warring focus on military first as it will reduce random hits.

Sci pump generally comes last(ish). You want your military to be pumped a little, but not fully drafted because you need that pop space for good sci pump econ.

Typical progression will be get big, pump wpa and some military simultaneously, sci pump, then finish military.

[beans]

I do not believe it would make things more competitive. More people trying to get land would push more acres into large kingdoms. A deer is not any more competitive with a bear then a rabbit is competitive with a fox.

Fair point. More kds then generally stay small going big just means more open targets for the kds that always go big, which is likely why they want it to happen. The game has gotten so small that targets in the top are very few and far between, so ofc small kds who want to get in range will be welcomed with open arms (and open mouths).

[vlahul82]

there is no need to be 20k acres. those noobish explorers with full CF all over are easy farming.

All you need to be is a 5-7k acres at 300+ NWPA and farm the 20k acres without even being able to retal back.

It's more fun to grab a 1500 acres (yeah, the pussies run GS) from a +20k acres.... while being ~7k :)

the morale: better be a well packed "smaller" province that can humiliate the X3 size noobs.

Everybody can do mills+forti+training and some sci pump with banks/schools. There is nothing special there.

Expect next age full waves over top 10 noobish explorers, without any pussy warning (like 1 week War preparation agreement - WTF is that?).

My last experience, which I plan to repeat next age, was a 7k acres with 300 opa - doing a grab over Cheese at 20k acres and without possibility for retaliation. Today's utopia is far more easier than in the past, the maximum OPA archievable is 600 per acre, with a 150 dpa home >>> 330 NWPA. That's insane, since a 7k acres can hold 4m offense points (can brake about 700k def specs @ 140% def ME).

[Milkman]

Just wondering what kind of calcs and build you use to come up with 600 OPA and 150 DPA :)

[DM_Benjamin]

explore, extreme sci, pwn noobs oh my

[vlahul82]

Just wondering what kind of calcs and build you use to come up with 600 OPA and 150 DPA :)

Well, it is indeed the best case scenario (human, prince/war hero with 2000 bpa housing). Not impossible to be achieved in a full age. Full 40 epa, poppa ~50-52.

A viscount hu/wh or warrior can get 400 opa easy.

DPA is 100-150, depends how much u send.

[Milkman]

Well, it is indeed the best case scenario (human, prince/war hero with 2000 bpa housing). Not impossible to be achieved in a full age. Full 40 epa, poppa ~50-52.

A viscount hu/wh or warrior can get 400 opa easy.

DPA is 100-150, depends how much u send.

You gonna have to spend significant time pumping to reach 2000 bpa in housing alone. How are you gonna make sure to be able to pump enough science if you're not going to CF your competitors? You're not going to be able to sustain extreme science while running 40 epa. Without CFs, you'll be vulnerable to getting farmed being on low enough draft in order to keep science production high.

I am surprised to see 2000 BPA in housing alone and Wh/warrior as suggestion for personality. If you're going for such science levels, would sage not be much more efficient pick?

[vlahul82]

You gonna have to spend significant time pumping to reach 2000 bpa in housing alone. How are you gonna make sure to be able to pump enough science if you're not going to CF your competitors? You're not going to be able to sustain extreme science while running 40 epa. Without CFs, you'll be vulnerable to getting farmed being on low enough draft in order to keep science production high.

I am surprised to see 2000 BPA in housing alone and Wh/warrior as suggestion for personality. If you're going for such science levels, would sage not be much more efficient pick?

Sage does not have the OME capacity/income. With honor comes the income bonuses, which are quite signifiant. Not to mention here some banks+schools (a 15/15 combo is decent) and the free hu/sci per tick (0,3 bpa per tick). Assume a model of 1500 acres average for the first month OOP and you have a 1500*0,3 books*24ticks*30 days = 325k books for free. The average study per tick would be of Accelerated as average with some days of Intense and others as Active or Sustained (1.2+0,3 free human = 1.5). A 1.5 average books per tick for 1 month on that 1500 acres model = 1620 BPA. The simuation is doable within one month OOP :).

Nobody ever had the guts to farm me, I doubt they got more brave in the meantime - as far as I heard they all chicken out behind pussy CF all age.

Lastly, I will farm their science through Learns - with my huge opa :), not the other way around.

[WhoIsHawk]

That is ridiculous.
Let's take your model to explain how ludicrous even your model is.
First you need to get to 1500 acres and not be a top 20 province or you'll just be eaten by the top kds you plan to not CF. So that's at least 1 week. Then you want to pump for 4 more weeks on 1500 acres to get 1600 bpa in only 1 science catagory. How lon gwill you have pumped your income for in order to get a high enough income to pump on the higher levels that you allege you will be pumping on?

Let's not forget by the time you get to your 1500 acres (still pretending this happens in 7 days) you are only just now getting to full OOP honor, which is 1800. Assuming you've attacked to get here, you very likely are not even baron with the rest of the server having no honor either. So your entire plan of pumping with War Hero income bonuses seems wrong because you are only a Lord.

Now, let's pretend you did manage to pump on your 1500 acres for 4 weeks (after 1 week of getting to 1500 acres) you are 300 nwpa so you're 450k nw on 1500 acres. Who do you plan on hitting? And just how much honor do you think they have??

I just don't see where your honor will come from. Not to mention all of these presumptions are based on 1500 acres and it taking you 5 weeks to get there. If you want to do this on 7k acres so that you can hit 20k acre provinces (as you suggest) you need to grow 5x your size. If you grow 5x your size now your 1600 BPA (in a single catagory) is now 320 BPA and you need to spend 4 more weeks pumping at that size to get your 1600 BPA back (in that same single catagory). This puts you at Week 9 not including the time it took you to attack from 1500 -> 7500 acres. Seems to me the age is over by now and you haven't accomplished any of the things you set out to do. But good luck! Did I miss anything?

[vlahul82]

That is ridiculous.
Let's take your model to explain how ludicrous even your model is.
First you need to get to 1500 acres and not be a top 20 province or you'll just be eaten by the top kds you plan to not CF. So that's at least 1 week. Then you want to pump for 4 more weeks on 1500 acres to get 1600 bpa in only 1 science catagory. How lon gwill you have pumped your income for in order to get a high enough income to pump on the higher levels that you allege you will be pumping on?

Let's not forget by the time you get to your 1500 acres (still pretending this happens in 7 days) you are only just now getting to full OOP honor, which is 1800. Assuming you've attacked to get here, you very likely are not even baron with the rest of the server having no honor either. So your entire plan of pumping with War Hero income bonuses seems wrong because you are only a Lord.

Now, let's pretend you did manage to pump on your 1500 acres for 4 weeks (after 1 week of getting to 1500 acres) you are 300 nwpa so you're 450k nw on 1500 acres. Who do you plan on hitting? And just how much honor do you think they have??

I just don't see where your honor will come from. Not to mention all of these presumptions are based on 1500 acres and it taking you 5 weeks to get there. If you want to do this on 7k acres so that you can hit 20k acre provinces (as you suggest) you need to grow 5x your size. If you grow 5x your size now your 1600 BPA (in a single catagory) is now 320 BPA and you need to spend 4 more weeks pumping at that size to get your 1600 BPA back (in that same single catagory). This puts you at Week 9 not including the time it took you to attack from 1500 -> 7500 acres. Seems to me the age is over by now and you haven't accomplished any of the things you set out to do. But good luck! Did I miss anything?

That is why people like you archieve nothing in this game :). You are wrong on every single statement there.

First of all: I've said a 1500 acres average>>>> that means a start on the 400 and be 1k acres within ~48 hours and by the end of the 4 weeks be a ~2500 acres.

Secondary: I would love any farming, to give us the war button, we will be 24/7 ready for war... for those top 20 provinces you mention, or kingdoms.

Thirdly, In 5 days OOP every province is 1200 honor.... so you overexagerate again (like in all your points). A ~300 honor rape per province is easy doable in a 3 days war... therefore Baronship is archievable in maximum 7 days of OOP - even sooner. Honor growth is 10 per tick>>> do the math.

If you need 5 weeks to be 1500 acres, I have no comments (don't want to be rude).

1000 acres is archievable in 36-48 hours OOP, with a solid amount of army trained. And you need 4 weeks for that?

The bigger you are, the better your pumping gets. By the end of your 9 or 10 weeks, no #2 should be hold by our allies and the 4th-5th difference to no #1 will be too huge to dare even a bounce attack.

Someone above had a very valid point of view: the bigger you are, you get in that 10% pool which is quite important. You only have to protect from 5-7 kingdoms that will BEG FOR CF.

Lastly: I've said that IT IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE simulation, could work very well for EOA. A mid age simulation would be ~400 OPA.

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It's futile to keep arguments for if you lack the understanding.

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I have started playing agian 2 weeks ago. I am Count/War Hero within one single war and with a 42 PPA. My acreage is 1500 acres (I've got 400a OOP right in the war), but I can end up the age with 5000 acres easily.

What are your full age archievements?

[jwuzi]

I would love for you to be 1k in 48hrs. Although I think quite a few players will race to love you first

The game is quite different at yr 15 than it is at yr0 is all I can say about that.

Asking Hawk for his age achievements this age is gonna make you cry

[WhoIsHawk]

I feel I know a little bit about what you're trying to accomplish...

However, you're probably right, I misunderstood whatever it is you said and to be honest I don't care to decipher it. Having only been back for 2 weeks you don't know what it looks like OOP nowadays.

Anyway, like I said, best of luck to you. As you can see from my image above, I believed anything was possible this age and I attempted it and was mostly successful so I don't doubt the possibilities. I do however doubt your ability to execute :) so perhaps you should prove me wrong. Either way, good luck and welcome back