Suicide Squad VS FReakstyle

[MyNameIsMatija]

Multi's?

He just posted the same message on nipster, edited it out and posted on Bestest Ever.

[13nesta13]

Herein lies the crux of this altercation: Reasonable Doubt

What you are saying is that these guys definitely have had to collude in order to razekill.
They MUST have been in cahoots because that is what I myself would have done because I play in an SKD and that's what i would have needed to do to produce such a result.

There is just simply no way that other aggrieved kingdoms can plan their own revenge and take snatch news on their own accord and razekill those provinces, beyond reasonable doubt.

And that's just it.

Your rhetoric is this:

KDs who war and go up the chart should be farmed for honor should they scale the honor/warring chart.
They should suck it up and eat cake when bullies come knocking, just because.
Should any possible retaliation/revenge occur, it must be organised.

Ours is more like this:

KDs who war and go up the chart should have the right to decide which wars they partake in and not coerced into.
Warring KDs should NOT suck it up and eat cake just because bullies come knocking, just because.
Any possible retaliation/revenge occuring from other KDs razing FS will depend on how badly FS rubbed them, would it not?

You, Sir, have joined in to crucify SS based on reasonable doubt.

Thinking about the embarasment of Pyro/BB/WSK/Pandas when they really discover they were on the wrong side all along.

My rhetoric is this. If you don't have a cf you are a viable target. If I can gain off you I will.

I don't remember a single kd I have waved this age or any other and not been willing to walk away with reasonable gains. If we agree to postpone engagement that's out of goodwill, not an entitlement, and certainly not 10 days away from end of age. If you're a threat and it's 10 days from end of age we won't give in to compromise of delaying our engagement of course, like anyone else who wants to win.

[markers]

FS and me made a MAP this age.
It becomes active when one or the other kd needs help.
If a gb situation comes into play we will help them out.
I was contacted and asked to gb freekstyle. I made Francis aware of this and it was clear that IF they would receive a unjust gb we would be there for them. We are not allied to any kd involved. It be rather obvious if you watch this kd history vs the kds involved. Were just doing the right thing and help a kd out. MAP always been a part of utopia. Dont mistake it for a cf/nap/allied. These kind of deals can be made to the devil itself. I dont know why some beleive that FS would have no one to help them when they get gbed?

Hi you were contacted by whom? Your ex kd mate who joined us 2 wars ago? This proves that he is a bad prov and should be kicked. But does not prove anything else. Show me the logs, protector showed me one and if it's the same thing then its rubbish and says nothing about gb

[Zauper]

Look, fighting over this is dumb:

At the end of the day, KDs helping SS claim that SS is organizing / helping organize it. There is no dumb 'reasonable doubt' as to what is happening.

There is no 'right' to land or honor in utopia -- it's about what you have the capacity to defend. If you choose to acquire lots of honor and don't grow, then yes, a larger kingdom can come along and take your honor. Now, I would say that this is true within reason -- there's a limit to how far a kingdom can reasonably be allowed to push another kingdom. That said, this isn't a conflict between kds that are at the bottom of the charts and are ghettos that are slugging eachother. This is between #1 and #2.

I think it's safe to say that most people would acknowledge that I'm not FS' biggest fan. Obviously I played in ED, and even after that I was close with ED until this age -- and ED and FS were at eachothers throats. There are probably reasons for kds to be mad at FS, and that's fine. Those reasons don't justify breaking an EOA CF, and the justification of 'well, they waved a kd too small to war them' is bull****.

[silverfox]

I wonder if you guys even look through your posts before actually submitting them. Whatever's been going on here has totally made my day just reading them for lols.

Can anyone seriously believe that this wasnt coordinated by someone from SS side (even if not started or led by someone from SS)? SS maxes meter, gets into a war, chains 2 dudes and within 1-2 hour, the 2 dudes got PKed by 3-4 KDs from the outside. And I am hearing claims that SS did nothing but simply fight a hostile and maxed meter and went to war?

Where were the bunch of you last age when I just pressed the button on Emeriti and coincidentally BB started hitting and razing in within the same hour? Nobody said Pyromaniacs didnt do anything, except just playing a hostile and pushing the button that was given to us? BB should be the ones razed and punished for interfering with my hostile/war, but apparently that wasnt the case. I took razes from 4 KDs after BB started razing Emeriti, and I lost 9 provinces.

Please, for god's sake, do not treat others like fools. Dont say something which you cant even convince yourself of.

Have there ever been any public declarations from myself, protector or flogger that Pyromaniacs and BB are allies? I'd like to see some of those quotes please, because I certainly cant recall any.

In fact, me, protector and flogger have always said the same thing, us and BB have fought each other in our quests for the crown almost every age until the last 2 ages, where us fighting brought neither of us closer to our goal of winning. Why is nobody buying our story that we aren't allies? Newsflash, people start associating you as allies when you seem to act like one, be it 2 KDs coming together and coordinating something that just isnt realistically possible without having talked it over beforehand or acting in favour of the other party when you feel that party has been unjustly dealt with.

Asking for explicit logs that SS explicitly was actively involved in coordinating this is ridiculous. You will never get those. None of the KDs on SS's side now would leak these logs, at least its not easy to obtain within 1 day of the incident happening. And what exactly were we supposed to do? Wait and investigate for 5 days before taking action, and FS already having 15 green provinces? Using common sense to assess that (1) we have a few in-game messages of KDs on SS's side reaching out to more KDs for help to join in on this GB and (2) the way the kills and engagement was planned and executed, it does not take a genius to arrive at the conclusion that this was planned.

Were there any logs that was between me and protector/flogger when BB hit into Emeriti last age when we pushed the button on Emeriti? My guess is no. And you wont get them, not until one day if Protector/flogger hates me, or vice versa, AND if we were as childish as CJ leaking past logs and pasting whatsapp screenshots after falling out with the other party.

Please, the least I ask of you is if you have the balls to do it, then admit it.

Act like a fool, get treat like a fool.

Funny how you claim now that it's "obvious" that SS must be organizing a GB on FS, yet last age when you waved ED (about 2 ticks after FS sent us a message saying "It'd be a shame if you were a good target for another KD") it had nothing to do with FS, at least until you shared your WA messages showing it was organised by your alliance. Oh right but you're not actually an alliance, I mean you just GBed ABS last age together, ED last age together and now SS together but you're not actually in anyway allied and have no ties. Being allied doesn't mean you can't war each other or have to publicly state anything either.

Here's the problem, you're targeting SS on the assumption they asked for a GB rather than hitting other KDs doing the OOW hits, clearly hitting the KDs razing would do nothing to try and save FS crown so instead you focus on destroying the KD they're at war with and use the excuse that they must have asked for help. Strategically it's the right choice to try and help FS, but from posts made all I see are people who don't understand the situation within utopia at the moment.

Right now there are so few KDs that you can't afford to be massive jerks to a KD and assume it will never come back to you, it's not like there are +50k players so pissing off 25 of them means nothing as you'll always be 10x their KD size in future ages and untouchable. The "warring tier" might not have the activity or the mechanical knowledge of the game to pump out massive #1 land banks, or take on the few top KDs in 1v1 wars, however they are mostly filled with long time players who can manage their provs alone and have enough activity to army in and out. Right now they have a choice, there aren't enough targets around in utopia anymore with around 160 KDs left, so they can either keep doing the same thing age in age out and eventually get "****played" by KDs like FS or they can just say screw it and get revenge.

What happens when next age rolls around and there's ~5 KDs going for land/NW and the warring tier decide they're not going to be bottomfed on all age, they're not going to play for 10 weeks just to have their provs wrecked, that they're willing to group up and look out for each other as well. Is everyone going to stop going for charts just to teach the little guys a lesson? For how long are top KDs going to have to spend razing people who dare to steal from them or top feed into their KD with better gains and avoid 150 pointing their meter.

I'm razing FS because I've always said if there's a chance to screw them over I'll take it, regardless of who they're fighting, I'd do the same to Pyro.

[markers]

I wonder if you guys even look through your posts before actually submitting them. Whatever's been going on here has totally made my day just reading them for lols.

Can anyone seriously believe that this wasnt coordinated by someone from SS side (even if not started or led by someone from SS)? SS maxes meter, gets into a war, chains 2 dudes and within 1-2 hour, the 2 dudes got PKed by 3-4 KDs from the outside. And I am hearing claims that SS did nothing but simply fight a hostile and maxed meter and went to war?

Where were the bunch of you last age when I just pressed the button on Emeriti and coincidentally BB started hitting and razing in within the same hour? Nobody said Pyromaniacs didnt do anything, except just playing a hostile and pushing the button that was given to us? BB should be the ones razed and punished for interfering with my hostile/war, but apparently that wasnt the case. I took razes from 4 KDs after BB started razing Emeriti, and I lost 9 provinces.

Please, for god's sake, do not treat others like fools. Dont say something which you cant even convince yourself of.

Have there ever been any public declarations from myself, protector or flogger that Pyromaniacs and BB are allies? I'd like to see some of those quotes please, because I certainly cant recall any.

In fact, me, protector and flogger have always said the same thing, us and BB have fought each other in our quests for the crown almost every age until the last 2 ages, where us fighting brought neither of us closer to our goal of winning. Why is nobody buying our story that we aren't allies? Newsflash, people start associating you as allies when you seem to act like one, be it 2 KDs coming together and coordinating something that just isnt realistically possible without having talked it over beforehand or acting in favour of the other party when you feel that party has been unjustly dealt with.

Asking for explicit logs that SS explicitly was actively involved in coordinating this is ridiculous. You will never get those. None of the KDs on SS's side now would leak these logs, at least its not easy to obtain within 1 day of the incident happening. And what exactly were we supposed to do? Wait and investigate for 5 days before taking action, and FS already having 15 green provinces? Using common sense to assess that (1) we have a few in-game messages of KDs on SS's side reaching out to more KDs for help to join in on this GB and (2) the way the kills and engagement was planned and executed, it does not take a genius to arrive at the conclusion that this was planned.

Were there any logs that was between me and protector/flogger when BB hit into Emeriti last age when we pushed the button on Emeriti? My guess is no. And you wont get them, not until one day if Protector/flogger hates me, or vice versa, AND if we were as childish as CJ leaking past logs and pasting whatsapp screenshots after falling out with the other party.

Please, the least I ask of you is if you have the balls to do it, then admit it.

No we didn't have beef with emeriti last age so you are confusing us with another kd. And we didn't do anything the only evidence i seen was a new prov asking his ex kd to have fun with us. You guys continue to ignore the obvious and choose to believe in some conspiracy. Why would I not have my allied kds join the fray if I'm organizing such a gb? Lol don't flatter yourself fs I'd beat you 1v1 if we organized this I'd be trolling instead of trying to figure this all out, since it first started. Ya known like you all should have before making a rash decision

[markers]

My rhetoric is this. If you don't have a cf you are a viable target. If I can gain off you I will.

I don't remember a single kd I have waved this age or any other and not been willing to walk away with reasonable gains. If we agree to postpone engagement that's out of goodwill, not an entitlement, and certainly not 10 days away from end of age. If you're a threat and it's 10 days from end of age we won't give in to compromise of delaying our engagement of course, like anyone else who wants to win.

Aye but we did have a cf, they broke it and waves 3 ticks afterour eowcf and after multiple attempts prior to setup diplo.

[silverfox]

Look, fighting over this is dumb:

At the end of the day, KDs helping SS claim that SS is organizing / helping organize it. There is no dumb 'reasonable doubt' as to what is happening.

There is no 'right' to land or honor in utopia -- it's about what you have the capacity to defend. If you choose to acquire lots of honor and don't grow, then yes, a larger kingdom can come along and take your honor. Now, I would say that this is true within reason -- there's a limit to how far a kingdom can reasonably be allowed to push another kingdom. That said, this isn't a conflict between kds that are at the bottom of the charts and are ghettos that are slugging eachother. This is between #1 and #2.

I think it's safe to say that most people would acknowledge that I'm not FS' biggest fan. Obviously I played in ED, and even after that I was close with ED until this age -- and ED and FS were at eachothers throats. There are probably reasons for kds to be mad at FS, and that's fine. Those reasons don't justify breaking an EOA CF, and the justification of 'well, they waved a kd too small to war them' is bull****.

There's actually very few rules to utopia.

If every KD in the game wanted to hit another KD then they are free to do so, quite how Bishop would deal with it under "spirit of the game" is unknown but upfront there's nothing to say it can't happen.

You're right that bigger KDs can "take what they want" from smaller KDs, but with the caveat that it must be within reason. The question is who decides what is reasonable? Is it the utopia community? If the community are allowed to dictate the actions of KDs then the utopian community seem to be voicing that they're sick of FS and how they play so surely this action is perfectly valid.

The reality is that most of what is "within reason" has historically been decided by top KDs and twisted to fit their own agenda, so when a friend is being hammered or they stand to gain from another KD suffering then some justification is applied and whatever happens outside of that immediate sphere is irrelevant, ghettos can bash each other to pieces for weeks or OOW and no-one cares. As the game gets smaller then grudges are more focused, when the same KD is named age after age of doing something which angers other players then it is inevitable that someone is going to say "enough of your ****" and others will use it as a time to take their pound of flesh.

If the warring tier has the "capacity to defend" themselves from bottom feeding by raze killing people doing it, then it is a perfectly valid tactic (within the rules of Utopia) and one other KDs have to resolve as I doubt many people want to spend each age raze killing people or being raze killed.

[Zauper]

There's actually very few rules to utopia.

If every KD in the game wanted to hit another KD then they are free to do so, quite how Bishop would deal with it under "spirit of the game" is unknown but upfront there's nothing to say it can't happen.

You're right that bigger KDs can "take what they want" from smaller KDs, but with the caveat that it must be within reason. The question is who decides what is reasonable? Is it the utopia community? If the community are allowed to dictate the actions of KDs then the utopian community seem to be voicing that they're sick of FS and how they play so surely this action is perfectly valid.

The reality is that most of what is "within reason" has historically been decided by top KDs and twisted to fit their own agenda, so when a friend is being hammered or they stand to gain from another KD suffering then some justification is applied and whatever happens outside of that immediate sphere is irrelevant, ghettos can bash each other to pieces for weeks or OOW and no-one cares. As the game gets smaller then grudges are more focused, when the same KD is named age after age of doing something which angers other players then it is inevitable that someone is going to say "enough of your ****" and others will use it as a time to take their pound of flesh.

If the warring tier has the "capacity to defend" themselves from bottom feeding by raze killing people doing it, then it is a perfectly valid tactic (within the rules of Utopia) and one other KDs have to resolve as I doubt many people want to spend each age raze killing people or being raze killed.

Sure. But the justification for this GB is that they're doing the exact same thing that ED did last age to continue gaining honor after growing out of range.

Do you feel like ED deserved to be GB'ed for that?

[markers]

Act like a fool, get treat like a fool.

Funny how you claim now that it's "obvious" that SS must be organizing a GB on FS, yet last age when you waved ED (about 2 ticks after FS sent us a message saying "It'd be a shame if you were a good target for another KD") it had nothing to do with FS, at least until you shared your WA messages showing it was organised by your alliance. Oh right but you're not actually an alliance, I mean you just GBed ABS last age together, ED last age together and now SS together but you're not actually in anyway allied and have no ties. Being allied doesn't mean you can't war each other or have to publicly state anything either.

Here's the problem, you're targeting SS on the assumption they asked for a GB rather than hitting other KDs doing the OOW hits, clearly hitting the KDs razing would do nothing to try and save FS crown so instead you focus on destroying the KD they're at war with and use the excuse that they must have asked for help. Strategically it's the right choice to try and help FS, but from posts made all I see are people who don't understand the situation within utopia at the moment.

Right now there are so few KDs that you can't afford to be massive jerks to a KD and assume it will never come back to you, it's not like there are +50k players so pissing off 25 of them means nothing as you'll always be 10x their KD size in future ages and untouchable. The "warring tier" might not have the activity or the mechanical knowledge of the game to pump out massive #1 land banks, or take on the few top KDs in 1v1 wars, however they are mostly filled with long time players who can manage their provs alone and have enough activity to army in and out. Right now they have a choice, there aren't enough targets around in utopia anymore with around 160 KDs left, so they can either keep doing the same thing age in age out and eventually get "****played" by KDs like FS or they can just say screw it and get revenge.

What happens when next age rolls around and there's ~5 KDs going for land/NW and the warring tier decide they're not going to be bottomfed on all age, they're not going to play for 10 weeks just to have their provs wrecked, that they're willing to group up and look out for each other as well. Is everyone going to stop going for charts just to teach the little guys a lesson? For how long are top KDs going to have to spend razing people who dare to steal from them or top feed into their KD with better gains and avoid 150 pointing their meter.

I'm razing FS because I've always said if there's a chance to screw them over I'll take it, regardless of who they're fighting, I'd do the same to Pyro.

This - the evidence shown to me was a province, whom is new and came over from panda, saying 'does pandas want action with fs? They're feeding and vulturing honor on low kd nw so do what you do best. There are some kds doing it'
(Facial emjois not added)

Hmm so an ex panda player talking to his ex kd mate and this is considered ss asked for a gb? Really gtfo over yourself

Hey everyone go raze fs because they are a $$hats

That is asking for a gb

[Palem]

Look, fighting over this is dumb:

At the end of the day, KDs helping SS claim that SS is organizing / helping organize it. There is no dumb 'reasonable doubt' as to what is happening.

There is no 'right' to land or honor in utopia -- it's about what you have the capacity to defend. If you choose to acquire lots of honor and don't grow, then yes, a larger kingdom can come along and take your honor. Now, I would say that this is true within reason -- there's a limit to how far a kingdom can reasonably be allowed to push another kingdom. That said, this isn't a conflict between kds that are at the bottom of the charts and are ghettos that are slugging eachother. This is between #1 and #2.

I think it's safe to say that most people would acknowledge that I'm not FS' biggest fan. Obviously I played in ED, and even after that I was close with ED until this age -- and ED and FS were at eachothers throats. There are probably reasons for kds to be mad at FS, and that's fine. Those reasons don't justify breaking an EOA CF, and the justification of 'well, they waved a kd too small to war them' is bull****.

Zauper is my spirit animal lately.

[lampost]

Act like a fool, get treat like a fool.

Right now there are so few KDs that you can't afford to be massive jerks to a KD and assume it will never come back to you, it's not like there are +50k players so pissing off 25 of them means nothing as you'll always be 10x their KD size in future ages and untouchable. The "warring tier" might not have the activity or the mechanical knowledge of the game to pump out massive #1 land banks, or take on the few top KDs in 1v1 wars, however they are mostly filled with long time players who can manage their provs alone and have enough activity to army in and out. Right now they have a choice, there aren't enough targets around in utopia anymore with around 160 KDs left, so they can either keep doing the same thing age in age out and eventually get "****played" by KDs like FS or they can just say screw it and get revenge.

What happens when next age rolls around and there's ~5 KDs going for land/NW and the warring tier decide they're not going to be bottomfed on all age, they're not going to play for 10 weeks just to have their provs wrecked, that they're willing to group up and look out for each other as well. Is everyone going to stop going for charts just to teach the little guys a lesson? For how long are top KDs going to have to spend razing people who dare to steal from them or top feed into their KD with better gains and avoid 150 pointing their meter.

I'm razing FS because I've always said if there's a chance to screw them over I'll take it, regardless of who they're fighting, I'd do the same to Pyro.

Pretty much on the money. Somehow the same kds always magically pop up on the same side. The prot/pyro/FS/etc. alliance are well organised. They GB Emeriti. They GB ED. The list is just endless and continues unrelentingly. Sooner rather than later though all those on the receiving end who arnt organised will band together. And yes kds who have beef with fs will hit into their wars.

[Feint]

So fun.... Why all razing SS? Question : Whether the gb on FS is deliberately planned and organized by SS that important? If yes/ no, what does it lead to? And does the outcome still matter? Since razing into SS has already taken place. Judgement already being made but why there are still so many argument over the same point , over and over again. Just whack only ...few more days to go

[Goodwitch]

because some people actually care

[silverfox]

Sure. But the justification for this GB is that they're doing the exact same thing that ED did last age to continue gaining honor after growing out of range.

Do you feel like ED deserved to be GB'ed for that?

Justification is just a persons opinion, FS feel they were allowed to smack people about and take their honour, other KDs feel that it wasn't acceptable and in their view it was bullying.

My own opinion doesn't really matter, I can see both sides views and they're both equally valid arguments. "With risk comes reward" is utopias tagline, FS took the risk of angering people leveraged against the honour gained, as you said things must be within reason and the KDs being hit feel this was unreasonable so have acted to police the game.

It could be endlessly debated about what is right and wrong, about game mechanics which are good and bad for the game, but what it comes down to is how people feel and there is often very little you can do to make someone who feels like they've been treat unfairly change their mind on the situation.