Spectre won their vulture war!

[Goodwitch]

So what you are saying...is that WSK is open to being razed?! ;-)

definitely NOT what I am saying.

[umajon911]

definitely NOT what I am saying.

well thats no fun!!! I could have sworn I read somewhere that there was a Utopia war going on...figured that was part of it :)

[ThRaZe]

How has this thread got anything to do with wsk? No offense, but derailing is why these forums are in bad shape. This thread started by someone poking fun at spectre for being vultures and jerks for being an insta-win war target. Neither of which are true. I Look forward to warring spectre at some stage. /closed

[Palem]

How has this thread got anything to do with wsk?

Yea, get back on topic.

[StratOcastle]

Yea, get back on topic.

This has everything to do with Wsk! - Kidding. It just reminded me of the Vizzini scene in Princess Bride.

Am I the first Jerk to answer the thread? I skipped most of it.

Well I asked if we were waving for war because as many of you know, I'm a traveler/kingdom hopper. I was told yes so I stayed. I'm sure the history of hostiles is known here.

Our initial wave was the best I've seen since I arrived here but little did we know we had unprepared provinces. The short answer is our ops capability was shut down within the day. The rest is up to speculation. I've been in wars, in other kingdoms, where our entire t/m core refused to op and still felt we had some tactical advantages. Yes, more than once.

I must assume my lawyer mode now and simply wish you all a Merry Christmas.

[umajon911]

This has everything to do with Wsk! - Kidding. It just reminded me of the Vizzini scene in Princess Bride.

Am I the first Jerk to answer the thread? I skipped most of it.

Well I asked if we were waving for war because as many of you know, I'm a traveler/kingdom hopper. I was told yes so I stayed. I'm sure the history of hostiles is known here.

Our initial wave was the best I've seen since I arrived here but little did we know we had unprepared provinces. The short answer is our ops capability was shut down within the day. The rest is up to speculation. I've been in wars, in other kingdoms, where our entire t/m core refused to op and still felt we had some tactical advantages. Yes, more than once.

I must assume my lawyer mode now and simply wish you all a Merry Christmas.

How does an ENTIRE TM core decide that they do not want to play during war... that just boggles my mind. I was watching stats for this war and you guys have a GREAT initial push it seemed, but then it all seemed to flip around and do a 180.

[StratOcastle]

How does an ENTIRE TM core decide that they do not want to play during war... that just boggles my mind. I was watching stats for this war and you guys have a GREAT initial push it seemed, but then it all seemed to flip around and do a 180.

To be honest, the kingdoms that we had total t/m refusal to participate, they were angry and vague. I was never aware of their goals or motives. One would assume this is where the suspected multis roam. But really t/m inactivity is rampant in many lower tier kingdoms. So are undead tacticians. It's like a disease.

My presence in Jerks was pure chance as I randomed into the game late mid-age. In a serious age I would've left already because I'm limited in my ability to interact with the more common communication and intel systems.

I won't speculate on Jerks tactics. The reason is because I know they've tangled with the likes of AMA and thus have seen the maw of the dragon. It occurs to me that I will not see Jerks in full battle array. This is ok, as I'm only here as a guest.

[umajon911]

To be honest, the kingdoms that we had total t/m refusal to participate, they were angry and vague. I was never aware of their goals or motives. One would assume this is where the suspected multis roam. But really t/m inactivity is rampant in many lower tier kingdoms. So are undead tacticians. It's like a disease.

My presence in Jerks was pure chance as I randomed into the game late mid-age. In a serious age I would've left already because I'm limited in my ability to interact with the more common communication and intel systems.

I won't speculate on Jerks tactics. The reason is because I know they've tangled with the likes of AMA and thus have seen the maw of the dragon. It occurs to me that I will not see Jerks in full battle array. This is ok, as I'm only here as a guest.

Im curious to learn of your experiences now from being in what sounds like super ghettos to where you are at right now :)

[Sephi]

God what a drama by an outside nub apparently.

So to be very clear, whether it was a double hostile or not depends on your view as clearly appeared from the other topic. I will not go into debate on that. It doesn't even matter. People in SPECTRE took offence to what JERKS said and wrote here. including a post that we would be crying in a next fight. So it was decided to take it to them after they finished their war. We did NOT nor WILL touch them during a war (as someone suggested to do to us in a post here), they could either have dropped a CF after our wave or take it to war.

They showed proper cojones and took the fight back to us. Respect to them for that,

and we werent expecting that after looking for a war for weeks. So they had a nice advantage, just didnt go for our faeries while they still could. Their TM actually did their work, we had NM waves lots of NS etc. Just not running wts on elf mystics was a mistake. Either way. we fought it out, we won, and we talked it out in the forums. So if you guys wanna keep making drama over something which is not involving you: have fun. Just tried to give you a proper idea of what the status is.

Also yes we where bigger but we had an issue to settle. Just like we settled an issue with pyro(far bigger than us) as well, which cost us a prov but still. We did what uto was made for: fight and talk it out.. not this never ending pre war diplo BS which you see around so often nowadays.
on the side: Only thing I wish for is that auto war is limited to kds 66%-150% your size or something to avoid the smaller kd getting stuck with their hit count.

PS: yes we turned down NDB, but had kds up to 1-1.5 mil bigger refuse us, generally there have been 2 kds we avoided, the 200NWPA+ kd and noobies during that search. For simple reasons that we wanted a more doable fight as kd after the pyro mess to get the morale up. Turning DNB was apparently not the smartest thing seeing their hate for us now :D

[ThRaZe]

We dont hate you. By any means. Neither do I from a personal note.

I simply stated i commended Jerks for their "taking the fight to u". Also defended some dude calling u ghettos.

Your reasoning is valid for not wanting to war us... some of us were just a little dissapointed that u declined war with us, then waved the kingdom we were hostile with.
I personally would have just liked to war you guys instead, as it would have been far more interesting.

[Sephi]

Thanks for the respect, but even though half of spectre is an old kd, there was a lot to smooth out this age and after the stuff with Pyro it wasnt time for another tough day :)

Next age things might be more promising (for one not having the pyro conflict P:)

[StratOcastle]

To play the middle, I think NDB are angry because the Spectre wave devalued their choice to war Jerks.

In my travels I've been in 3 wars with NDB; all losses.

A bit off topic, but I haven't told this one yet -

I count one in which I was being sat because that's on me. I wanted a nub to get a feel for running the biggest province in a kingdom. In the meantime my rpg group was starting a new game I wanted to attend. I told the nub to play it like it was his. He proceeded to rebuild and raze what he thought was superior. Anywho, HRS; that was palems non-faery kingdom, was us and FREE waved. The decision was made to run from FREE so HRS(her royal swiftness) waved NDB. I had known NDB were practiced at certain tactics as we discussed options in irc. My sitter decided to double massacre a big halfer and in the ensuing wave we gave the button.
It's kind of funny getting the play-by-play from an exited nub in irc while my province was crushed from 4500 acres to 380 and learned to the stone age. His province was relatively intact.
For some reason he had an invitation to another kingdom sent to my province. I noticed it when I logged in. Seeing how everything was smashed I figured I'd take a leap. For fun I didn't even look at who the invite was from. I landed in Monsters and started a province named Chimera Occult because I always use the occult designation for cleric and chimera was thematically appropriate. So that guy named Chimera is'nt me in there, but he barrowed the coolest name. They hated me because I couldn't use their com system. I left them plenty of credits to recruit in my departure. I then moved to Thundercats as my outro that age.

The next war I met NDB was while I was with The Wishmasters. I informed The Wishmasters of the ferocity of NDB but I still got scolded after the war by Wands because I may not have been animated enough in my warning. Obviously things didn't go smoothly and we were pulverized.

Finally we have the Jerks war. I was curious to see if NDB were as formidable since they just reconstituted this age. Again, I informed the kingdom of my experiences. I can't speak for everyone, but initially the Spectre massacres(2) weren't too debilitating to me. It was when I started putting on acres that my wpa deficits forced methodical tactics. The core suffered immense damage. Just to remind; I randomed into Jerks with a build I wanted to experiment with in a more chaotic environment. I'm an elf cleric. The beauty is to be running a durable attacker with good op defense.

- Forward to Spectre.

After the loss to NDB my province gained acres but you know how slow generating wpa is. So when we engaged Spectre I was running 30% guilds in war. I suspected solid ops/sabotage from Spectre so I accelerated building WT on new acres. Most training was elites and thieves. I suspected our dragon was a troll attempt as we were in no position to fund. I was also willing to tank the Sapphire since slaying was prohibitively costly and our ability to op was wiped out.

The reason I'm giving personal accounts is because I'm not privy to all the goings on. I'm not sure why certain elves didn't build WT.

None the less, I think NDB vs Spectre is good warring. I'm frankly a fan of this nondiplomatic approach. I won't cheer it on as every kingdom has it's agenda. I have great respect for NDB as they never blinked in any of the 3 wars I've seen them. It's ok to blink, lol. They pushed the button on HRS like buying a Coke at a vending machine.

[Hollopoint]

To play the middle, I think NDB are angry because the Spectre wave devalued their choice to war Jerks.

In my travels I've been in 3 wars with NDB; all losses.

A bit off topic, but I haven't told this one yet -

I count one in which I was being sat because that's on me. I wanted a nub to get a feel for running the biggest province in a kingdom. In the meantime my rpg group was starting a new game I wanted to attend. I told the nub to play it like it was his. He proceeded to rebuild and raze what he thought was superior. Anywho, HRS; that was palems non-faery kingdom, was us and FREE waved. The decision was made to run from FREE so HRS(her royal swiftness) waved NDB. I had known NDB were practiced at certain tactics as we discussed options in irc. My sitter decided to double massacre a big halfer and in the ensuing wave we gave the button.
It's kind of funny getting the play-by-play from an exited nub in irc while my province was crushed from 4500 acres to 380 and learned to the stone age. His province was relatively intact.
For some reason he had an invitation to another kingdom sent to my province. I noticed it when I logged in. Seeing how everything was smashed I figured I'd take a leap. For fun I didn't even look at who the invite was from. I landed in Monsters and started a province named Chimera Occult because I always use the occult designation for cleric and chimera was thematically appropriate. So that guy named Chimera is'nt me in there, but he barrowed the coolest name. They hated me because I couldn't use their com system. I left them plenty of credits to recruit in my departure. I then moved to Thundercats as my outro that age.

The next war I met NDB was while I was with The Wishmasters. I informed The Wishmasters of the ferocity of NDB but I still got scolded after the war by Wands because I may not have been animated enough in my warning. Obviously things didn't go smoothly and we were pulverized.

Finally we have the Jerks war. I was curious to see if NDB were as formidable since they just reconstituted this age. Again, I informed the kingdom of my experiences. I can't speak for everyone, but initially the Spectre massacres(2) weren't too debilitating to me. It was when I started putting on acres that my wpa deficits forced methodical tactics. The core suffered immense damage. Just to remind; I randomed into Jerks with a build I wanted to experiment with in a more chaotic environment. I'm an elf cleric. The beauty is to be running a durable attacker with good op defense.

- Forward to Spectre.

After the loss to NDB my province gained acres but you know how slow generating wpa is. So when we engaged Spectre I was running 30% guilds in war. I suspected solid ops/sabotage from Spectre so I accelerated building WT on new acres. Most training was elites and thieves. I suspected our dragon was a troll attempt as we were in no position to fund. I was also willing to tank the Sapphire since slaying was prohibitively costly and our ability to op was wiped out.

The reason I'm giving personal accounts is because I'm not privy to all the goings on. I'm not sure why certain elves didn't build WT.

None the less, I think NDB vs Spectre is good warring. I'm frankly a fan of this nondiplomatic approach. I won't cheer it on as every kingdom has it's agenda. I have great respect for NDB as they never blinked in any of the 3 wars I've seen them. It's ok to blink, lol. They pushed the button on HRS like buying a Coke at a vending machine.

Well damn, strato. You should write a book on us. Would love to war spectre but it's going to have to wait till next age, a bigger green just waved us. I think we're going to have some fun with them.

[bluorr]

I fail to understand, since when choosing your fights in an intelligent manner has become something bad and to condemn? I was under the impression Utopia was about who is better at schemes, strategizing, more cunning, higher skilled and better at speculating and more patient in waiting. Also, social skills, diplo skills are a huge part of the game if not the biggest, as clearly shown each eoa when stuff begins to escalate. Sure, we can debate if all the above is good or bad for the game, but that doesn`t change the reality. This IS the game and WAS the game ever since I first played from the very first ages. You can adapt to it, you can master it, or you can come on the forums and rant nonsensical stuff about X, Y, Z.

Reading some of the Spectre`s critics` post, I am lead to think that they are playing a different game. You have the extremes.
1) The kindergarten emo flower power puppies ... Anything is a double hostile. Everything is persecution. The whole world is against them. Survival of the fittest is offensive !!! Some decades ago, 18-20 years old men were marching into war. Nowadays, 18-20 years old men are gluten-free and cry that "words hurt!".
2) The wannabe smart "playaz". They think of themselves as being smart and game. Most of them have very high opinions about themselves, even if they`re dumb as a rock and even a dead camel in the desert`s brain is sharper than theirs. They want wars when they have the edge. They want to "trick" the opponent, play him. And if the enemy declines, they go all rampage and trashtalk the enemy.

As for Jerks and Spectre. They have fixed their disputes. Thumbs up for Jerks for having the cojones.

As for Spectre. Spectre started as 22, a Kd with a full new management, growing in time to 25. However, as it wasn`t something particularly planned, the Kd setup had some minor lacks so to speak and planned around those lacks: waving, warring etc.

Ending up with an addition to the already mentioned bigger Kds. Before you call Spectre cowards, you might want to know two facts.
1) Spectre warred SS. It was a loss, however, they pulled off quite a proper executed end war scheme, ending up with a handful of extra acres and honor before Wding.
2) Spectre waved FS 1/4 into the age. FS had a different warring target in the "person" of a 1-2 mils lower nw Kd than both Spectre and FS. You can understand however what 1-2 mils nw means 1/4 from start of age.

Happy Holidays!

[Tash]

Spectre (steward) declined my first invite to war (I often open with, "do you like to party?") due to the long weekend being a low activity time for them. The second time I got no reply at all. The third time will be my generals making the request :p... well.. maybe when I'm not a TM, so next age?