Not a good choice on stables... since OOP you are gonna war.... those horsies are slow to produce... might as well put into Training Ground or Barrack or Hospital.
Not a good choice on stables... since OOP you are gonna war.... those horsies are slow to produce... might as well put into Training Ground or Barrack or Hospital.
Dungeon seems to be a better choice too. Prisoners are on 5 off points.
the stables will keep filling if you go to war.
Acre swaps makes stables a lil tricky if you cant fill them _before_ war. Stables are powerful this age, and should def be built. But if war is planned for first or second day OOP, I'd get TGs up to 20% before phasing in stables. Get stables for your second war instead. Alternatively, wait to war a couple of days. Lots of resources out there to steal anyhow. Waste to get stuck in war first day.
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Second day oop means 32h+ for stables to get to at least ~75% capacity, that has to be significantly better than TGs without simming to give you numbers. When I was simming for myself during preage it looked like TGs were a bit better for your first hit oop, but by the time your army has returned from attacking the stables were far better.Originally Posted by Tadpole
Unless you are going to be both in war and chained before your army gets back from it's first attack right at oop, stables should perform better.
you can build tgs and stables oop if you really need the mod... but raw offense is different from mods. you can build tgs any time, but you can't generate horses as easily, and that will make a big difference 24, 36 hours later. additionally, once the stables do hit capacity, swapping them out for other buildings is possible, which is exactly what i am planning to do. the difference between having stables and not having them is 3k extra raw offense points, which is not insignificant (and would be more significant if i weren't a halfer).
in the oop war i'm fighting now, the raw offense i generate from stables (80/tick) is the equivalent of training roughly 166 standard ospec per 12 hours, on top of what i'm drafting already. there is also a limit to what a kingdom can draft early, and anything that adds to that (independently of peasant growth and gc income, too) is helpful. this increase in raw stuff, in my current situation, is roughly a 20% increase over what i can draft+train (training also has a 14 hour wait period)... thus i can free up some of those soldiers for aid while maintaining my offense.
while i can lose my land and thus my offense generators (boo), that would mean losing anything else i had built as well... tg included.
the same principles apply if hitting for growth oop, more raw stuff is a different thing than more mod stuff.
for what it's worth my oop had 15% tg and 10% stables, 25% other stuff. i have more offense than i know what to do with.
We are in a dominating war right now.. unfortunate for our opponents, they had a couple clowns do quad plunders into us.
Just wanted to throw my weight behind noobium's analysis. I wholeheartedly agree, in the first week you need to focus on raw stuff. More gold, more steals, more troops. Train everything into specs and worry about making armouries and training leets later.
That being said, I do have 1300 faery leets just because I'm being left alone and able to steal 35k gc a tick in this noob war. You can do stuff like that, train 1200gc leets when your gold intake can keep up with aggressive+pat draft.
And any KD getting into OOP war with less than 1 tpa on ANY province is doing it wrong imo. 1+ tpa is so powerful oop, it's ridiculous. The amount of gold (and other resources) that you can generate with your thieves far outstrips what your banks can produce.
Last edited by dingy2; 23-04-2016 at 07:43.
Beast
WarWins or BUST
You're forgetting the MAIN way a province loses troops.
Think about it for a second....
Got it?
Yeah, getting chained and overpopulated.
Warrior's rather large offense buff is a huge benefit to a province attempting to secure acres to either preemptively soften, or recover from a chain. Hence, a max gaining warrior is more likely to lose 0 leets to overpop than a similarly built cleric.
Not to mention, it'll take a long ass time for cleric's 30% losses reduction to match the instant 15% OME boost that warrior got in the 1st hour of war. You'd have to war for a week for cleric's offense to overtake a warrior's.
Because this bears repeating: You're doing it wrong if your attackers aren't prioritizing some amount of thieves in an OOP war. It's by far the most gold-efficient military unit in the first few days.
Last edited by dingy2; 23-04-2016 at 07:44.
Beast
WarWins or BUST
While I agree with most of your points, this one is fauty. Assume no hospitals, equal stables/TGs.Not to mention, it'll take a long ass time for cleric's 30% losses reduction to match the instant 15% OME boost that warrior got in the 1st hour of war. You'd have to war for a week for cleric's offense to overtake a warrior's.
Cleric: 100% off, 0.07*0.7 = 4.9% casualties (let's say 5%)
Warrior: 115% off, 7% casualties.
115*0.93^t = 100*0.95^t
Cleric:
5 uniques: 77% off left
6 uniques: 74% off left
7 uniques: 70% off left
8 uniques: 66% off left
9 uniques: 63% off left
10 uniques: 60% off left
Warrior:
5 uniques: 80% off left
6 uniques: 74% off left
7 uniques: 69% off left
8 uniques: 64% off left
9 uniques: 60% off left
10 uniques: 56% off left
Other words, after t = 7, cleric will overtake warrior. Obviously, the warrior will run more hospitals and the cleric potentially more TGs. OR, the cleric is running hospitals in addition to his bonus and the warrior running 20% TGs on top of his 15% bonus. Both personalities simply give more flexibility either way. Just like a warrior stacked with rax can outpace a tactician without rax. The ceiling in off (warrior), sustain (cleric) and tactician (speed) is simply higher.
Here's what I would do with an orc/warrior, presuming I'm in a kingdom that aims to grow/war oop...
Freeze time:
Build 50 stables, 40 towers, 20 guilds, 90 barracks
Explore 1 acre (you would want to get the acre shortly before protection ends... while you can dice the acres, this has the possibility of failing)
Train: 200 elites, 280 thieves, 2900 offense specialists, 1415 defense specialists
Set draft to 99% (you're going to be drafting constantly)
Set science to active, invest starting books evenly among all categories
Protection:
Build 5 dungeons as soon as the daily free acres come in, 1 dungeon on the explored acre. The 5 dungeons should be ready when protection ends (you can rushbuild them if you need)
Invest the books you acquire evenly among all categories. This should mean you have 1100 books researched or in research per category when you leave protection.
Drafted troops go to defense specs until your credits expire, then to thieves. You may want to set aside some soldiers.
Late Protection/OOP:
For your t/ms and explorers, max explore 405 acres. This is why you explored the initial acre. (You can omit those steps if you aren't exploring any provinces.) Exploring strats are different but most likely you wouldn't explore with orcs.
Once protection drops, you can either attack for acres outright or hold your armies for retaliation, or some combination thereof.
You start out with 24610 offense and gain 90-100 raw offense per tick until the stables fill, and start with 10.7k defense. This should be close enough to break a province that trained 4k defspecs / brutes outright, if you're willing to use 4 gens.
The extra barracks allow you to hit and return faster, and should mean that in an early war, you will be able to make 5 uniques before mintime. If you tweak around barracks during war, this could go up to 6 uniques even.
The extra towers are useful for funding your mages' early ops (if war/hostile) or dicing up your t/ms and explorers... additionally you have a lot of selfspells you would want active, since your economy depends on them. Reflect, IA, Patriotism, LP, FL, NB, and MP are all critical at this stage and usually should be up 24/7... Bloodlust is expensive and fairly useful at this stage as well.
Post-protection:
Your first objective should be to ramp up your thief count to 400-600, perhaps higher. 280 thieves to start gives you enough to hit the gc theft cap on most inactive provinces and is reasonable enough to defend against other attackers. Aside from Halflings, few are going to start with more than 600 thieves oop.
Your spec credits should go towards replenishing offspec.
Any gc you have after reaching those goals train into elites. They will be expensive at 800 a pop, but they're space-efficient.
You will be constantly drafting. If you have excess soldiers, don't worry about it - basic soldiers are an incredibly valuable asset.
You'd want to keep at least 2000 defspec or so, and try to maintain 2 defensive units for every 3 offensive units you have (spec or elite)... so when you start exceeding 3000 offensive units you'll likely include defense with stuff you train. It's difficult to predict if you will get hit or not though, or where you will find money for elites/thieves.
Don't build your incoming acres until you have a need for different building types. This will change when you go to war (in which case adapt to your needs) or fortified (in which case you'd want to build pump buildings in advance). By not building your acres, you aren't wasting money if you get landgrabbed. You should be able to feed yourself on the starting 40 farms + barren acres and FL. You should only build your acres if you would otherwise lose peasants from overpopulation imminently.
Research will likely go towards alchemy/housing at this point, but you should bank your books and put them to channeling if that is needed.
From there you would try to find a war, or work on aiding your explorers if any exist. Obviously you'd have to adjust this to your circumstances or activity. It helps to set realistic goals for what you want to train per day after oop, rather than rely on per-acre numbers. After your first war, or after stagnation sets in, you'd revert to the standard army/build strategies.
Your stance should probably be aggressive oop, since it's basically a free gains/speed buff at this time, and the combat loss penalty is not a big deal.
The outcome should be an early war if you're lucky enough to find someone who will fight, or a plan to enter fortified and elite pump.
If barracks are not useful for you, you can swap them in part or full with some of the following:
Homes/Banks - useful for econ if growing, but imo military buildings are better.
TG - easy enough, more offense makes it easier to keep slugging away. i like barracks better because speed is harder to replicate, and you should have sufficient offense from warrior and what you train.
Forts - not particularly useful unless you war, but because offense levels are limited, these can make a big difference between single and multi taps. tg are much better for you, but you could probably do 15% tg 5% forts to balance your offensive and defensive numbers.
Guilds - 40% guilds is pretty useful if you wind up in an early war, especially with Reflect guarding against some Mystic ops.
Other buildings to look at for oop:
Thief Dens - generally not too useful since your targets are low tpa shlubs, but if you have the tpa advantage against an opponent with decent thieves and sense to build watchtowers, this should preserve your tpa advantage in war.
Watchtowers - if you are behind in rTPA this is your first line of defense, and since you are mostly specs it's a good idea to have.
Note that you can build both of these if you want to have the best possible advantage in thievery... this is not normally the case but oop thief strength will be a lot more variable, both for attackers and t/m (especially non-rogue t/m).
The overbuild of stables is useful since you will likely lose some acres, but if you have excess mounts, you'll be able to draft/receive basic soldiers to buff your offense.
With the changes to eowcf and fortified this age, traditional pumping strategies are not so easy...
Last edited by noobium; 24-04-2016 at 03:45.
dingy2 if Bart is agree with you that means you're mostly likely wrong. I have notice this guys likes to use bad strategies. So all those people that don't know what these guys are ****ing talking about but want to understand it and can't, well, if Bart of Sparta says something is good you may want to use a different strategy.
I've play cleric and it doesn't take a week for the loses to match warrior's ME bonus. It just take around 3-4 attacks. In this case Bart is agreeing with what I am saying. So just remember just because someone is wrong most of the time doesn't mean they never right. On the same token someone such as me who is right all the time doesn't mean he or she can't ever be wrong. Important lesson to learn I hope you all learn this.
Anyone ever fight an orc warrior vs an elf cleric in the same nw range? That's right baby. It's not Jack Wilson time, but who's sticking to schedules?
Jack Wilson: You're fast and you like pain. You eat it like candy. I've seen a few cases like that in my time. The more they get hurt, the more dangerous they become. But you got to be durable, too. Real durable. Most ain't.
I usually unleash this quote on tacs, but warriors are the flavor of the day. Cleric is immune to plague which constitutes a great reason for any core player to choose it as a personality.
I think it's important to point out that I don't look at persona or race as an "or" but an "and". I'd rather be part of a kingdom that had a variety of attacker personality and races because it's indicative of a kingdom that understands proper role. Most kingdoms, even very accomplished, play simplified strats because they work vs the competition. This is not a reason to ignore variety as ghetto strat. It's only because those are based in uncontrolled environments.
Last edited by StratOcastle; 24-04-2016 at 22:27.
love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
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It's not about one orc/warrior against one elf/cleric, it's a group of orcs against one elf/cleric.
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