The U or "How to fail even ending on 2nd place for Dummies"

[Korp]

In the real world you would be end up in jail as well for stealing so real world analogies arent great when it comes to Utopia. But a correction, you accept punishement as long as its a punishment you consider to be within reason fo what you did. Thats the problem of the whole issue. It doesnt work that, you dont get to decide whats within reason for the kingdom that has been offended, the kingdom that offended does and since this is Utopia is very rarely fair. Sometime it will bite you in the ass.

[Palem]

You killed their war, their goals, and their reason for playing. Now their killing your reason for playing. What's not fair about that?

[Zauper]

Bluorr: I think you misunderstand what people said. A little robbing, frankly, is expected. And sure, 5m is maybe 2% of a kds gc. However, it's 80-90 % of that core provs gc. So in return, if someone removed 80-90 % of your land, that would be reasonable?

Essentially, mass robbing one prov might not meaningfully change the kds gc, but it can completely ruin prep for that one prov. Kingdoms will understandably be mad about that, same as if you got a prov razekilled while hostile with a second kd.

[stealth4785]

Bluorr: I think you misunderstand what people said. A little robbing, frankly, is expected. And sure, 5m is maybe 2% of a kds gc. However, it's 80-90 % of that core provs gc. So in return, if someone removed 80-90 % of your land, that would be reasonable?

Essentially, mass robbing one prov might not meaningfully change the kds gc, but it can completely ruin prep for that one prov. Kingdoms will understandably be mad about that, same as if you got a prov razekilled while hostile with a second kd.

On the left hand side of the Utopia menu, there is an aid button. I think you can shuffle resources around if one person gets robbed, I think that's how it works.

[StratOcastle]

The pump game is it's own animal. Those willing to play it gravitate to the top. There's good and bad in it, namely rogue interference. They get their acres from somewhere and it's generally from those who are unwilling to fight back. Besides, we're talking about acres: Important to tops and negligible in competetive warring.

That said, I guard my acres to the best of my ability but I'm also fine with others doing organized land dropping. I've recommended it to kingdoms out of their element. The mutually beneficial reasons would be to get top kingdoms the range to compete against each other, and for warring kingdoms to run the lean strats that make for epic crown competition. in other words, we can do these things respectfully. Particular to crown focus; be it honor, war, whore I recommend smooth relationships.

Now, I'm one of the oddballs that doesn't fit in any of the crown categories and I have no kingdom to call home. I welcome the challenges as they come my way. The game of being a larger war kingdom and getting waved from above while you wave those below you is herd mentality. You can overcome this by facing your larger nemesis or being reasonable via diplomacy. I'm quite happy with formidable larger and well organized kingdoms waving the kingdom I occupy but my teammates apparently feel otherwise.

To put this in perspective, your war kingdom is to mine what The U is to yours. We simply haven't stolen your gold for the grief. You wouldn't want that. When i ran a top core province I accumulated 8+ mil but I needed most of it for training, build switch, dragon and helping others who might've missed the itinerary. Had that gold been stolen I'd have been a terrible liability to my kingdom.

[StratOcastle]

On the left hand side of the Utopia menu, there is an aid button. I think you can shuffle resources around if one person gets robbed, I think that's how it works.

Any self respecting enemy knows when he sees aid via SN and witnesses the poor tb of the province in question that a good dose of explosions and chain effect(ops/march/sabotage) will render that province to junk status.

Oh, provided the province has much left(if he discovers theft in progress). How fast can a rogue steal till they're stealth depleted? Freaky fast.

So both ways, the aid option is middling at best.

[Bishop]

On the left hand side of the Utopia menu, there is an aid button. I think you can shuffle resources around if one person gets robbed, I think that's how it works.

Also on the left hand side is the war room button. Razekilling for stealing has better returns long time than aiding.

[Binar]

On the left hand side of the Utopia menu, there is an aid button. I think you can shuffle resources around if one person gets robbed, I think that's how it works.

and thats the kind of thinking that gets you razed.

[bluorr]

If you won 2 wars you can fight. Don't get down on your numbers and all that crap. My kingdom was eating a top kingdom wave and that's their business. We left a CF hanging out there, which I'm not a proponent.

Anyway, when they got to me I retaliated. It was a measured response. My first tactical decision was to strike his teammate as an indication that I held his kingdom responsible. At the same time I cast explosions and PF on the responsible province; I wanted him to know I can escalate but would prefer we stop at acres with no further harm exchanged.

The province I attacked then retaliated and I cast PF and explosions on him as well. If they took intel I caused riots. More intel? I ambushed both with PF kills and we had the hostile. I stopped at maximum effectiveness short of giving UF. I'm not afraid to give relations, but this again was a matter of demonstrating a willingness to be reasonable.

I'm respectful of top kingdom goals and therefore don't attempt crippling harm. I certainly have zero fear of the consequences, but I know they're just doing the routine.

I think your kingdom, bluorr, also exchanged with ours and we again left a CF floating out there. This is not my way. While I respect your warring prowess I'm confident in my abilities to trade shots with anyone. Your kingdom seems interested in top play, so don't be shy. Lots of top kingdoms go through an abbreviated roster spell.

Trust yourselves. I trust myself. Just know your kingdom can play at any level if you put effort into it. The beatings make most learn diplo, like a good spanking. But you don't have to do that if your tough enough ;-)

What you`re mentioning is a theoretical utopian scenario. Fight against all odds and all that glorious chit chat. Which would work, at the beginning of the age, middle of the age maybe when the U would actually have something to loose. But it definitely won`t work now. Not as a 10 mil Kd vs a 30 mil Kd that has nothing to loose because the age is over for them. So trading shots is a waste of time, resources. Especially for us. Making threats like: "We`ll hunt you next age ...". Who knows when next age is? People have a short memory and by next age will forget and be like: "Who`s the U and why do we want to bang`em?".

You`re a lone rider from what I gathered through the ages. It`s easy to act/react when solo. At the end of the day you got nothing to loose. But as a team that wants to war some more till eoa, we ought to tread carefully. You understand why.

[Verminator]

The real secret to robbing the top? Predict the kingdom that will actually secure #1 and have to fight meticulously to keep it the rest of the age; therefore they cannot realistically waste any significant time on razing for punishment. Go rob THOSE guys all you like and reap the benefits of their own success. You guys just bet on the wrong pony.

[bluorr]

Bluorr: I think you misunderstand what people said. A little robbing, frankly, is expected. And sure, 5m is maybe 2% of a kds gc. However, it's 80-90 % of that core provs gc. So in return, if someone removed 80-90 % of your land, that would be reasonable?

Essentially, mass robbing one prov might not meaningfully change the kds gc, but it can completely ruin prep for that one prov. Kingdoms will understandably be mad about that, same as if you got a prov razekilled while hostile with a second kd.

For the second time today: we haven`t cleared a province of all gold. We have tried to be with common sense: 1-2 ops here, 1-2 ops there. So that the damage would not be high. You think I`d come here and ask for fairness if we`d go all out on one single province?

The scenario in which, without my knowledge, somebody went all greedy and did actually clear a province of all gold - by all means, I`m waiting for the U to show me that proof. And if that is the situation and the damage was so insane, I will personally tend to making things right. I said "right" not kindergarten, women on period whims. In addition to that, as I see that the discussion keeps pointing in that direction. At the time of the U versus FS preparations, we have stole probably double from FS and FS still "ate" the U like the U was a mere trash mob in some low level dungeon in some obsolete MMORPG. With the risk of getting FS on my head. It is the reality.

[TommyB]

bluorr.. i am actually trying to understand what the complaint is.

you stole from spartans, fs, emeriti etc. and got waved in return.
yet you keep on stealing from bigger kingdoms.

what exactly besides raze-killing your provs would it take to make you stop?

[TheRealKremlin]

So Bart you ask me why we steal from top Kds? Because that is the circle of life.

Even since the start of the age we had almost ALL top Kds coming to bottom feed on us, including Spartans and Emeriti - half+ or full waves, not mere random attacks. Our "bad luck" was that we won two wars in a fair short amount of time, ending up quite big and only 23. We can`t really fight back nor is there any real point in wasting time to try to cripple the big guys. So, we eat the waves, rebuild and move on. For rebuilding and moving on - we require gold, which we steal. All of you top Kds complain we stole gold from you but it`s hard to remember that you actually fully waved us for land/sci even when you had no reason to? I understand you wave a lot and you don`t always remember who you waved or not, but come on, be fair at least.

Binar - possible you might have threatened us with razekills. Understandable. Us smallies we gotta do what we gotta do to survive, you biggies gotta do what you gotta do to enforce the "order" and secure the top. Did we stop? We did. Did we come to an agreement? I reckon we did.

When a top Kd bottom feeds on us smallies, in the best case scenario there`s a "yea, sorry guys, we needed the land". Case closed. Within hours it`s like it never happened. But when us smallies steal a 5 mil gold ... representing a value of say 2.5% of the top Kds` gold, we`re Adolfin reincarnated. I noticed your opinion about us, just "another ghetto". If you anyways look down on us, at least don`t exaggerate our actions.

As for the regular "eye for an eye". I don`t want any of that. I don`t take this game personal. I don`t want to spend an age hunting and trying to cripple some top Kd down because omg they razed me or waved me. I got enough of that beef to chew irl. Within the game, what I can hope for, is to eventually manage to go 25, have our old asses on the 110% activity horse again and challenge any1 who did wrong versus me and win fair. That! - is satisfaction.

So once again, why the hell can`t we be good sports?

Haha, this is hilarious.

You are actually trying to justify your stealing as "the circle of life" and claiming you are just retaliating. If that was true why the heck did you even steal from us at all? I think we maybe randomed you ONCE before you started robbing and one of our guy's may have retaliated once during the middle of it.

You also claimed you didn't steal that much and everyone does it... You guy's stole AT LEAST 40 mil (that is 100% confirmed) and that was from our core provinces. I'm sure it was actually much higher -- so you could what, burn it on sci? You also ignored or where flat out hostile to our diplo.... what did you think was going to happen once we weren't fighting for #1 anymore?

We got robbed by a bunch of kingdoms by the way. The vast majority DID just take a little and then agree to a CF -- I'm not thrilled about it but it's certainly not worth our time to go after them. If you had even come to us AFTER stealing probably 20 times more than any other kingdom I'm sure we STILL probably would have made a deal with you.

Look at it this way, your kingdom was specifically a BIG factor in why we lost to FS (not the only or even the most important but certainly a factor). No different than if you had waved us or doubled us right as our CF dropped. Sure it doesn't show up in the paper but it's a hostile action either way. And just because you also robbed from FS doesn't change anything or make it any less of an issue. Honestly to have an equal affect on your kingdom we should have waited for you to get in a war and THEN razed... I mean do you even care about the land?

Last thing -- YOU started this post. It seems to me that you have an attitude that the top is "whining" but that really isn't the truth. We are just getting our revenge and wouldn't have posted here about this at all except it seems to be the hot topic at the moment. Maybe look in the mirror some?

[TheRealKremlin]

The real secret to robbing the top? Predict the kingdom that will actually secure #1 and have to fight meticulously to keep it the rest of the age; therefore they cannot realistically waste any significant time on razing for punishment. Go rob THOSE guys all you like and reap the benefits of their own success. You guys just bet on the wrong pony.

This is very true. I was thinking of making a tongue in cheek post before our conflict thanking all of the robbers for their vote of confidence :) We of course assumed that they were robbing from us since they thought we would win and wouldn't have a chance to exact revenge. Of course in this case it appears bluorr was robbing just about equally from both of us so he was going to lose either way :)

[ZeroCool]

So Bart you ask me why we steal from top Kds? Because that is the circle of life.

Even since the start of the age we had almost ALL top Kds coming to bottom feed on us, including Spartans and Emeriti - half+ or full waves, not mere random attacks.

Took this part of quote as it is not true, Emeriti did a total of 2 randoms on you this whole age. So yeah you where stealing from us unprovoked.