#1 vs#2 honor kds

[HerpNDerp]

I'll reply this because you're part of TBB (or seems like that to me). Most readers here know very well this is not gonna end when the age does. If this was your first time crossing path with KDs like CR/Div/FS, you gotta understand that the concept of b2b can carry on to next age and every subsequent age to come until disbandment or boredom, if an agreement cannot be reached.

If warring FS next age is your wish then I guess a fair shot at warring them is what you'd probably want. (ah ha! so there is probably something you might want afterall! nebu, see?)

Leaving this relations open and carrying them over for the next age pretty much ensures that you will never get a fair shot at them. Grudge isn't going away, but the least you can all do is to sit together, hold hands and agree to some terms and maybe bend over a little to buy the survival of your kingdom.

I am all for drama for **** and giggles but experience tells us that your kingdom will not survive this drama with those 3 specific kingdoms on your ass, and I personally frown upon disbanding kingdoms in this already-tiny community. Would memoria consider taking another small hit in ego to buy some peace?

So at this point, the conflict isn't about skill, but which kingdom has more friends that have been playing this game longer than everyone else?

And you just expect the rest of the player base to just accept that status quo and beg for forgiveness when, really and truly, TBB has not done ANYTHING that anyone else hasn't already done this age/for the past many ages? Their play isn't '****play'. This 3v1 gangbang razekill ****fest is ****play. And you willfully admit that this is what happens when your alliance gets their feelings hurt.

Good to know from this point forward not to trust any of you with anything. Nor is it in anyone else's interests to fair play with you, since there is zero chance we would get the same consideration in return.

[MyNameIsMatija]

+1 on that, it's almost like you are my multi - same join date too :O

[JusticeLeague]

Well, that's a constructive comment I must say, Han. You've always been the most sane and nicest to talk to. TBB/CR/FS/DIV - heed Astron's advice and work things out.

Check out Feint's posts. All the personal attacks and name-calling. Such maturity from a so called pro (since he's calling ppl newbie). Tsk tsk

Since when Feint becomes a so called PRO...Lmao.

[MyNameIsMatija]

It's actually ironic that you harp so hard on my relations with FS when you are the person nobody wants to play with which ended up disbanding every KD you ever played in...

Thank you feint, because of you I know there's someone worse at people relations than me.

[Elldallan]

Elldallan, that is where I am confused. If Ascension can come on here and say they received gold to fight FS and FS had no problem with it then why does FS have a problem with TBB getting gold TO RECOVER FROM WAR? Once again, TBB did not get a bunch of gold and then wave CR. They got a bunch of gold and got waved by CR and then declared on them. It did not become a problem until after they won the war.

Bottom line: One kingdom has decided what is right and wrong and you have all followed along with them. Bunch of fricken lemmings.

I dunno about the war between Ascension and FS but I'd assume that FS won that conflict and therefore have no issues with it because they won anyway. Or I'd assume that Ascension was behind and got resources to get a fighting chance, this was after all an arrangerd war from what I understand. But I can only speculate on this since I dunno anything about that conflict. Did FS win that war?

TBB got a bunch of gold which in turn changed the outcome of that war, that's the crucial point.

TBB made a tactical wd from the first war, probably in order to save their elves. TBB was up both Land and Honor from what I've seen but CR had really chained their core attackers(looking at historic data on umunk).
So had the war continued CR could have brought down their elves one at a time, thus they WD'ed. If that situation had persisted the outcome of round 2 would be the same, CR could have brought down their elves with sheer massed fire from their attacker core. CR therefore obviously felt that the conflict was not resolved to their satisfaction, which is reasonable considering that there was no clear winner(TBB still being up on Honor/Land).
My own personal opinion on a conflict is that it's not resolved until both kd's have agreed that it is, ie either have cf'ed or they've parted ways "amicably"(ie nothing happens after max eowcf).
Since TBB refused cf terms(both CR and TBB have attested to this in the thread) it was obvious that there would be a round 2. To feed gc into that conflict is interfering in that conflict, same as if you'd hit into that conflict(I don't see a difference in kind here, only potentially a difference in scale).

Possibly CR thought they could win despite that disadvantage but in the end couldn't pull off a win, or possibly help wasn't available at the time of round 2, I dunno why they didn't bring in help for round 2.
I doubt that CR didn't feel that it wasn't a problem but if they could just push through it there's no reason to raise a huge stink about it, you just push through it and go for round 3 if necessary to turn a profit, most kd's don't like pulling outside help into a conflict and will avoid it when it's possible.

No actually several kingdoms tried to decide what is right and wrong:
1. Sparta for feeding gc into a conflict, even Bart has now admitted that it was a shady move
2. TBB for accepting that feeding
3. CR for calling in allies for the actions of TBB&Sparta
4. FS & Divinity for aiding CR.

But yes this is usually how things work, in utopia as well as the real world, when one person/kingdom have enough supporters their opinions matters more than those with less, get enough supporters and you get to write laws and go to war against people with differing opinions.

Personally I didn't lemming anything anywhere, I decided based on my own opinions and as a former AMA player I've had my fair share of disagreements with CR in the past so not exactly an undying fanboy.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Tl; dr

[JusticeLeague]

Don't know what big boss wants so can't speak for him. But my suggestion to TBB would be to suck it up and approach each kd for a CF so to salvage whatever is left of their age instead of crying on the forums - sometimes leadership needs to bite the dust and take one for the team and drop the ego.

Astron, I dunno who you are. But like what most had said and mentioned, it is evident TBB played their diplo game poorly.
Leaving relations open to FS. Despite being repentant, they argued over non important stuff. In addition, ppl like supernebu and Bart just adding oil to fire. They shouldn't speak at all (why? because they are dirty, they only make the water even more murky)

Last but not least, Astron, you don't have to do anything. You sound idealistic but not practical. Numerous incidents like these had happen one too many times. Ultimately, what the community are looking for for FS, CR or even Divinity to stop, like most cases, public apology, admit the fault, not to compete, Cf with all kingdoms involved.

Ask Bart, he is expert. He been through it

[astron]

So at this point, the conflict isn't about skill, but which kingdom has more friends that have been playing this game longer than everyone else?

And you just expect the rest of the player base to just accept that status quo and beg for forgiveness when, really and truly, TBB has not done ANYTHING that anyone else hasn't already done this age/for the past many ages? Their play isn't '****play'. This 3v1 gangbang razekill ****fest is ****play. And you willfully admit that this is what happens when your alliance gets their feelings hurt.

Good to know from this point forward not to trust any of you with anything. Nor is it in anyone else's interests to fair play with you, since there is zero chance we would get the same consideration in return.

In one single post you have blatantly lied thrice. I wonder how far can anyone go talking to you with that attitude and approach of yours. Get memoria to the table or are you in any capacity to speak for your kingdom?

[JusticeLeague]

I wasn't asked to leave FS, ever, by anyone except Francis hinting it in freeze time once when we argued saying something "after all you've said to me here I'm not sure we should be playing together anymore" - something along those lines, but during the same argument he said something like "this is your chance to prove your worth" (referring to the upcoming age). Point is, this was in freeze time, I still played in FS like nothing happened, I wasn't told to leave or anything, I played their first war with them, we won the war, then Francis had to harp on about something again, at which point I decided to just tell him I'm leaving, if I hadn't decided that there I would obviously continue playing there at that time (I did nothing wrong during the war). Yume says she was nice to me which is true, she told me all sort of nice things and made it hard for me to actually part ways, Loiso as well in freeze time, making some nice points which are the reason I gave it a shot and was on my best behavior during the war. When I fought Francis after the war again is when yume told me: "I was really hoping you two wouldn't fight before our next war where you could show him how you can build" (this is referring to the fact I built defspecs in protection, already here Francis harped on about that so I just purposely left it like that to troll him). I'm really repeating myself here... if you don't get it by now you never will so I won't touch on the matter anymore.

Perhaps we can start another thread to discuss about your case.
Intention is obvious. If you don't leave after talking to you nicely, we will raze you.
If you feel better that you volunteer to leave to avoid more saga, then be it.
I don't think many care except you. I just frank.

[p0ngkol]

So at this point, the conflict isn't about skill, but which kingdom has more friends that have been playing this game longer than everyone else?

And you just expect the rest of the player base to just accept that status quo and beg for forgiveness when, really and truly, TBB has not done ANYTHING that anyone else hasn't already done this age/for the past many ages? Their play isn't '****play'. This 3v1 gangbang razekill ****fest is ****play. And you willfully admit that this is what happens when your alliance gets their feelings hurt.

Good to know from this point forward not to trust any of you with anything. Nor is it in anyone else's interests to fair play with you, since there is zero chance we would get the same consideration in return.

remember the feyrplay age where CR crowned. they did a lot of gc funding. they funded Sparta gc to have a sure war win against TBB. because Sparta will then LD to them and CJ/Crazy (no.2 land) cant take land on TBB. and now that it happened to them this age, they responded with a GB. how ridiculous this status quo of utopia :((

[sUpeRneBU]

Astron, I dunno who you are. But like what most had said and mentioned, it is evident TBB played their diplo game poorly.
Leaving relations open to FS. Despite being repentant, they argued over non important stuff. In addition, ppl like supernebu and Bart just adding oil to fire. They shouldn't speak at all (why? because they are dirty, they only make the water even more murky)

I wonder how clean you are. Pot calling the kettle black. Pfft

[dawan]

oh yea i can see my post now :)

how was the raze kill goin?

[ckonn]

remember the feyrplay age where CR crowned. they did a lot of gc funding. they funded Sparta gc to have a sure war win against TBB. because Sparta will then LD to them and CJ/Crazy (no.2 land) cant take land on TBB. and now that it happened to them this age, they responded with a GB. how ridiculous this status quo of utopia :((

Its Power : )

[astron]

Astron, I dunno who you are. But like what most had said and mentioned, it is evident TBB played their diplo game poorly.
Leaving relations open to FS. Despite being repentant, they argued over non important stuff. In addition, ppl like supernebu and Bart just adding oil to fire. They shouldn't speak at all (why? because they are dirty, they only make the water even more murky)

Last but not least, Astron, you don't have to do anything. You sound idealistic but not practical. Numerous incidents like these had happen one too many times. Ultimately, what the community are looking for for FS, CR or even Divinity to stop, like most cases, public apology, admit the fault, not to compete, Cf with all kingdoms involved.

Ask Bart, he is expert. He been through it

I never quite expect myself to ever agree with you on anything, but yes. Someone from TBB needs to read this post of yours 50 times and come to the table with resolution in mind instead of more ****flinging and get their diplo game together.

[JusticeLeague]

It's actually ironic that you harp so hard on my relations with FS when you are the person nobody wants to play with which ended up disbanding every KD you ever played in...

Thank you feint, because of you I know there's someone worse at people relations than me.

Serious? I think you missing out details. I admit I am at fault. Kingdoms always fall apart when I chose not to lead. Didn't you see super nebu crying out, complaining I bail out on them which in fact I have my own reason. Cant be asking me to keep monitoring utopia while I am out on holidays. My old BOB and Stoners gang are in fact still with me. In fact, Gurch Gang may be joining me back. Loser like super nebu, you can just keep it.
Nothing but trouble.
Super nebu Get gc aid from Spartan before the war between greek and the U, and in the end still lose badly, plus with Bart going around advertising Greek took 5 mill gc for the war. I felt utterly ashamed that I am part of greek that had such deals when I am back.
Worse than TBB, at least they take gc and won. And you now playing with Spartan. Your agenda is clear.