-wSk- vs CR

[Band of Horses]

I like a good joke but your quality is deteriorating, please take this into consideration with your future posts.

If that one wasn't good enough for you maybe this one will be. "Just imagine how many people you'd have had to kick if you had Matija in your kd still? One."

[MyNameIsMatija]

Certainly an improvement.

[Band of Horses]

Thank you very much for your suggestion. We really appreciate the time you took to think about it and we find it to be very helpful. We are glad to inform you that we have decided to take into your advice and implement it. It’s these kind of ideas that we strive for to help us keep improving. Please don’t hesitate to share your thoughts in the future.

[MyNameIsMatija]

See, there you go.

[AquaSeaFoam]

I believe you are mistaken with your positioning at the time of the Chrystal incident.

Nope, Emeriti was #1 when Crystal waved them even though you're right they were behind early. There should be old posts on this forum confirming that. I'm certain they were #1 land at the time although I am hazy on the details. I believe Emeriti caught up by warring Pyro and then whoring well. Crystal took out Emeritis cows when they were #1 kd land, and also hard chained some, but Emeriti wound up with a big core and more provinces able to whore.

Simians and BB re-passed Emeriti on the charts during this time and BB noticed Emeriti from a 15% land advantage and also a gc advantage while Emeriti had the sci advantage. Emeriti gained around 70k acres in the war and secured the age. Crystal gets all the credit for handing Emeriti the age, but the reality was Emeriti was #1 land at that time, Crystal killed their cows, and interrupted pumping/whoring/exploring for a week. Emeriti did gain some land in the conflict and had other land redistributed, but it was the BB war where Emeriti fought from 15% smaller and gained 70k acres and secured the age. It's very likely that if Emeriti was able to instead keep their cows and keep pumping for that week on or near #1 land, and still warred BB after, the result would have been similar.

Edit: I did a forum search and unfortunately this is the period where the forums lost all data. Simians lost their #1 position when they had a long prep and hostile and then cf'd the other kingdom with gaining only a minimal amount not worth their time. Emeriti might have lost their #1 land position once Simians could re-whore and use their pool even without Crystal waving, but they were in #1 land position when he waved. As stated, BB was also in the mix with those three all fairly close prior to Crystal waving. Emeriti had the best sci of the three with Simians #2 and BB #3 sci.

Edit 2: Umunk shows Emeriti gained just under 32k acres in this age's conflict with BB counting the ww. Certainly this was a lot, but it isn't the 42k you listed. And again, intent and collusion matter. A kingdom doing their best to keep their land in a fight isn't the same as two kingdoms making a farm deal for one to give the other a huge amount of acres for the intent of helping the other's chart position.

[MyNameIsMatija]

IIRC at the time Emeriti were also #1 honor but something happened on that front. Maybe Crystal prevented a crown after all!

I'm talking about age 64 here, the age I started playing, I remember this because my ghetto waved Emeriti for millions of books of knowledge and ended up signing a land for CF deal from it (Emeriti accompanied the diplomacy with raze threats though). I've just remembered, they also used Meep's KD or someone like that to pincer the ghetto I played in (they were more in our range, we just topfed on books from Emeriti undefended bottom provinces which had millions of books) - this might help pin point the age I'm talking about :P
The Crystal incident might have been the age afterwards (65) but I remember Crystal doing the same thing multiple times so... Uhhh, scratch that, that was the AWAR age, age 64 is my best guess then.

When I look at this now, seems like Emeriti would do anything that they think they can get away with to get ahead of the competition. They are in no capacity better than the CRs of the world in terms of morale or playing cleanly.

[Band of Horses]

Nope, Emeriti was #1 when Crystal waved them even though you're right they were behind early. There should be old posts on this forum confirming that. I'm certain they were #1 land at the time although I am hazy on the details. I believe Emeriti caught up by warring Pyro and then whoring well. Crystal took out Emeritis cows when they were #1 kd land, and also hard chained some, but Emeriti wound up with a big core and more provinces able to whore.

Simians and BB re-passed Emeriti on the charts during this time and BB noticed Emeriti from a 15% land advantage and also a gc advantage while Emeriti had the sci advantage. Emeriti gained around 70k acres in the war and secured the age. Crystal gets all the credit for handing Emeriti the age, but the reality was Emeriti was #1 land at that time, Crystal killed their cows, and interrupted pumping/whoring/exploring for a week. Emeriti did gain some land in the conflict and had other land redistributed, but it was the BB war where Emeriti fought from 15% smaller and gained 70k acres and secured the age. It's very likely that if Emeriti was able to instead keep their cows and keep pumping for that week on or near #1 land, and still warred BB after, the result would have been similar.

Edit: I did a forum search and unfortunately this is the period where the forums lost all data. Simians lost their #1 position when they had a long prep and hostile and then cf'd the other kingdom with gaining only a minimal amount not worth their time. Emeriti might have lost their #1 land position once Simians could re-whore and use their pool even without Crystal waving, but they were in #1 land position when he waved. As stated, BB was also in the mix with those three all fairly close prior to Crystal waving. Emeriti had the best sci of the three with Simians #2 and BB #3 sci.

IF they were #1 it was because BB and Anry were in conflicts (Pew and Divinity) and thus had pool build up so in reality that isn't #1. I still don't think it was the case but we'd need munk to clear that up most likely because you're right that was the age we lost the forums :(. That was ofc after you tried to NW drop to declare on CJ's ghetto, good thing the second time you tried it with Chrystal it worked. You lost your 4 15k cows and ended up with 10+ 10k calves, and the honor so much honor marques and counts on those 10ks.

You remember the land you gained from BB, how much did you gain from Chrystal? And IIRC the chrystal wave was when you were in prep for someone and I want to say Anry? At that point in the age I'm pretty sure octo was scampering to figure out how to stop Anry from crowning and destroying the game. They had the best cows thanks to early age success and I believe they gained cow acres off Proteus and Binar in that super long misplayed conflict that you were talking about.

Again, I must point out how perfectly it parallels the simians example propro was using on CP.

I miss the days of Elit and Flogger controlling the top and when someone accepts a farmout they have to raze it or sit out, I point to the RBL age.

And yes Matija that is the point of this, emeriti would do anything that they think they can get away with to get ahead of the competition. And they are outraged at any time their competition gets ahead, just look at their outrage that CR wasnt surrendering in this war with WSK.

[flogger]

So if you earn your position through strategic planning throughout the age and outplaying others which amounts in a big lead it's ok for one kingdom to erase all of that hard work by deliberately giving up a huge amount of land to shape charts? That's basically like you and I play a mock stock market game for a month to see who can earn the highest return, your net worth is much higher than mine after the month but then my dad writes me a big check so I can catch up to you. Where's the skill in that?

But you aren't earning it through strategic planning. You're either

1) randoming ghettos
2) free waving weaker kingdoms
3) Getting agreed upon landdrops from similar kingdoms
4) Searching out the weakest of the top kingdoms to farm

None of that is terribly strategic, although we at the top have made that the strategy. Its not good for the game.

What is strategic is there were 4 kingdoms, y'all coulda just picked who fights who and then have the winners fight eachother on equal size. I posted this before anyone warred.

Instead now all the top kingdoms spend all age worrying about who's getting free land and from where and how, and then people get pissed if someone gets land from somewhere where they can't get land, everyone ranked 5th and under ends up hating all 4 of you because you're all hounding them constantly for land.

Yes there's strategy in getting to be the first person to war simians or that other kingdom I couldn't remember that any given age has warred all of us and farmed out to all of us, but that's a pretty lame and boring strategy.

You and CR are both sages, much easier to just get to the same size and duke it out rather than have the age decided by whose CF expired first with the easiest kingdom to beat (in this age, that was PI).

For someone who cares so much about ego, I am surprised you don't get the appeal of letting someone get up to your size, let them pump, then kicking the **** out of them. Its much more satisfying, believe me. Based on them almost losing the war to Coss, I'd be surprised if you didn't know you'd win even if you did that. Surprised you aren't more confident to let it happen.

[flogger]

(BIO would use run avian wd from war up land strategy) .

FWIW - We W/D the first war up in land, we won the remaining 3 wars we fought vs the rest of Abs.

[AquaSeaFoam]

When different setups and especially when cows are involved, it's very difficult to arrange a "fair" fight. Setups peak at different points in the age. Some are better at getting more land to fight from a bigger land size while others are better when superpumped from equal or even smaller land. While the arranged size tournament sounds nice, setups weren't picked with that in mind and it's not really how utopia works.

[AquaSeaFoam]

FWIW - We W/D the first war up in land, we won the remaining 3 wars we fought vs the rest of Abs.

I thought you crowned with 0/4 ww's that age. I could be wrong.

[flogger]

I thought you crowned with 0/4 ww's that age. I could be wrong.

Pretty sure we were 3/4, with the one loss being the first one where i joined the kd halfway through the fight. But I could be wrong as well, my memory isn't perfect.

[flogger]

hard to tell from WW chart, the only kd in the top 100 in WW's that was top 10 in land was Rage at #61

[Bart of Sparta]

Pretty sure we were 3/4, with the one loss being the first one where i joined the kd halfway through the fight. But I could be wrong as well, my memory isn't perfect.

And another thing in common. Come join Sparta and crown with me <3

We can both forget half and remember the other half, perfect!

[flogger]

But I certainly don't recall ever losing a war to Fury