-wSk- vs CR

[wingding]

I will sort this out again for all new readers who can`t read all that spam.

1) Clash Royal gave 6k acres to CR
2) Just before our first war whit CR Clash Royal end blank CF whit us and stole bunch of gc from us. Instead they to be happy that we will kill their assfu...ers they try to screw us and help CR to win the war.... ????? they just gay and like to be f ... or Cr`s *****es?
3) We want that war so we gave CF to Clash Royal till yr10. yeah yeah not by utopia mail, only by whatsapp. But who give a ****. CF is CF
4) In our first war whit CR we added their acres to our banks and we WD.
5) All knew that there will be secound round between us. Clash Royal dealbreak ended our CF and waved us 6 hours after our war end.
6) So we had 2 choices war CR screwed and lose or war Clash Roylal. So we choosed second option like most kingdoms will choose
7) CR begin to raze us in our war even if they knew that this is not FW and keep razing even now
8) All top kingdoms act like this is normal

So it is all clear that top is full of pussies. But it is not clear why the game still allow these pussies to raze in other wars?

1) CR took the 6k, as we didn't have a cf deal w them at the time...we didn't "give" them any land
2) We were shooting for EOACF, we didn't steal anything, but were definitely using the broken cf as a negotiation item to get our EOACF we wanted...which ultimately we didn't get
3) Not true, my terms were not met...
4) n/a
5) crs even admit there was no cf, he avoided confirming we had any cf for 3 days on sapp...the last time a whole day no reply

logs for myth debunking if ppl haven't seen some of the screenshots

2/6/17, 7:01 PM - Gurch: maybe you lemme know whether we have eoacf ?
2/6/17, 7:05 PM - Gurch: ppl buggin me to confirm if we have it locked up or not
2/7/17, 5:28 AM - cRs: Hey sry went for a long sleep :)) this war killed my sleeping prg :(
2/7/17, 5:58 AM - Gurch: No doubt, plus I saw roro's mad about something
2/7/17, 5:59 AM - cRs: Yeah.. silly new gouverment wanted to give a law to allow then stealing :))
2/7/17, 5:59 AM - cRs: Annyway as I sayed we have nothing with u.. whats ur cfs with eme and cr?

[sexual harassment panda]

I will sort this out again for all new readers who can`t read all that spam.

1) Clash Royal gave 6k acres to CR
2) Just before our first war whit CR Clash Royal end blank CF whit us and stole bunch of gc from us. Instead they to be happy that we will kill their assfu...ers they try to screw us and help CR to win the war.... ????? they just gay and like to be f ... or Cr`s *****es?
3) We want that war so we gave CF to Clash Royal till yr10. yeah yeah not by utopia mail, only by whatsapp. But who give a ****. CF is CF
4) In our first war whit CR we added their acres to our banks and we WD.
5) All knew that there will be secound round between us. Clash Royal dealbreak ended our CF and waved us 6 hours after our war end.
6) So we had 2 choices war CR screwed and lose or war Clash Roylal. So we choosed second option like most kingdoms will choose
7) CR begin to raze us in our war even if they knew that this is not FW and keep razing even now
8) All top kingdoms act like this is normal

So it is all clear that top is full of pussies. But it is not clear why the game still allow these pussies to raze in other wars?

Ivan, I think the russian booze has rotted your brain. You should probably stick to reality and not whatever you think happened during one your binges on methanol because you can't afford vodka.

Anyway, we were really good at covering our tracks except for naming Clash Royale also a CR name. We woulda got away with it if it wasn't for these meddling eastern euros!

[Elldallan]

I will sort this out again for all new readers who can`t read all that spam.
3) We want that war so we gave CF to Clash Royal till yr10. yeah yeah not by utopia mail, only by whatsapp. But who give a ****. CF is CF

5) All knew that there will be secound round between us. Clash Royal dealbreak ended our CF and waved us 6 hours after our war end.

This is new and hasn't been mentioned before in this thread as far as I've seen so it sounds like complete bull****.
The story before was that it was a blank cf because Clash Royal never agreed to the Yr10 part and you never bothered to make sure it was in place

[ivan]

Ivan is from Bulgaria and we drink mostly Rakia, becasue its stronger then Vodka!!!
Sometimes with Beer

[Maximo]

This is new and hasn't been mentioned before in this thread as far as I've seen so it sounds like complete bull****.
The story before was that it was a blank cf because Clash Royal never agreed to the Yr10 part and you never bothered to make sure it was in place

What is so new about any of that? We were indeed prepping for round 2, and we had no idea clash was going to wave us. Perhaps we assumed incorrectly deal was in place, but it certainly isn't bs.

[ivan]

Nobody has anything against Clash, they choose to wave WSK and they fight back of cource to punish them. The big problem is Cr, what the hell they interact in other wars!!!

[brandonc204]

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[brandonc204]

...

[Elldallan]

What is so new about any of that? We were indeed prepping for round 2, and we had no idea clash was going to wave us. Perhaps we assumed incorrectly deal was in place, but it certainly isn't bs.

Yes none of that is contested, but whether there was a dealbreak involved or not is pretty massive and it's not something that has been mentioned before. Bad dealmaking by wsk is not something that should adversely affect CR, therefore if you had a deal with CR you should have honored that even if it was detrimental for your kingdom. An actual dealbreak by a third party would obviously change that equation.

Nobody has anything against Clash, they choose to wave WSK and they fight back of cource to punish them. The big problem is Cr, what the hell they interact in other wars!!!

Bad dealmaking by you shouldn't adversely affect the parties of your other deals, therefore the problem here is wsk, they should have honoured their prior deals and commitments .

Waving into another KD's war is not cool, with very few exceptions. And those exceptions must be due to extreme behavior.

Dealbreaking is one such instance, imo any intentional dealbreak should be met with gb or punishment no matter how insignificant, if the dealbreaking party flees to war then the protection afforded by that war is null and void, it deserves getting hit into.

Benjamin as a third party attests that the deal exist and as it does wsk's obligations were clear regardless of their or CR's interpretation, they either needed to give CR their dues or to fight CR until that conflict was concluded in accordance with the deal as wsk saw it, wsk took a third path and therefore broke that deal unless there are any mitigating clauses that we're not aware of. Deals should be honoured, dealbreakers should be loathed and persecuted.

Now IF, and I stress IF Clash Royale actually dealbroke wsk then that needs to be substantiated because the nature of that interaction pretty much underpins everything else that has happened.

The point of an effective wave is to gain resources or trigger a war. Letting your opponent know in advance isn't a requirement, right? If a rock solid deal wasn't in place, no harm no foul.

Agreed, but that still would have precluded wsk from responding because they had deals, responsibilities and commitments elsewhere.

[brandonc204]

...

[coss]

1) CR took the 6k, as we didn't have a cf deal w them at the time...we didn't "give" them any land

I will not waste my time with rest of stuff but here you are just BSing. CR broke CF with you and hit you for 2 waves doing the NW drop trick with soldiers. They took the land where they wanted to, as in top high core. 24-36 hours after you break CF with us and start to threaten about screwing up our war preparation with CR. Kind of strange don't you think? I personally took info on you and you could EASY do 3-4 x on any of them. So yes, you just gave them land. The reason you did? No idea ... probably they just messaged you as they did to all server saying they give eoa CF if you give them land. So just stop the crap about the "we didn;t have a cf and they waved" cause it's not true. You gave them the land cause YOU WANTED TO and same as you waved us cause someone sent you. I doubt any sane person would get into a fight they can't win without a solid backup from someone else, or you really are damn stupid to wave us and get farmed to sh!t. You admitted you know you'll get farmed first hours of war into the war forum. So I guess only reason you waved us is because someone sent you. Strange for everyone but I don't believe CR sent you but someone else. Someone who is even more scared than CR is. And I have a feeling they got you to also feed acres to CR cause CR was seen as a less threat with just 3 cows.

[munk]

So I'll try to make a short summary:

CR and wSk made a deal that winner of war should get land to compete with emeriti -- "winner takes all"

1/12/17, 9:57 AM - topsy: Let's do a winner takes all then? Then we can stop dealing with the acres on pi/Sparta and war would have more stakes
1/12/17, 9:57 AM - topsy: Nothing more fun than a big war with high stakes that you have some time to plan for
1/12/17, 9:58 AM - ‪crs‬: Oh I think coss showed me a conv about this :) and we agrred to it allready lol

We play war and wSk WD, so we end on same acres but they have cow acres. Due to the nature of "winner takes all" we went for long term strategy of massing their faeries.

2/6/17, 6:27 PM - topsy: Gg on long hard war
2/6/17, 6:28 PM - ‪crs‬: Ty u2.. time to get some sleep and start over :)
2/6/17, 6:28 PM - topsy: Thought we were just doing 1?
2/6/17, 6:29 PM - topsy: Last age was the time for many!
2/6/17, 6:31 PM - ‪crs‬: Yeah thought that too at some point.. but as u can see this is where it leaded..
2/6/17, 6:36 PM - topsy: ?
2/6/17, 6:36 PM - topsy: Not sure I follow
2/6/17, 6:36 PM - topsy: Why wouldn't the deal still be the deal
2/6/17, 6:39 PM - ‪crs‬: We lost a battle not the war.. war goes on
2/6/17, 6:41 PM - topsy: Seriously?
2/6/17, 6:42 PM - topsy: That seems like a bit of a stretch in terminology
2/6/17, 6:42 PM - topsy: Neither of us would have gone through with what was needed to ensure this war if what we understood as the agreement wasn't what we both understood to be the agreement
2/6/17, 8:59 PM - topsy: Just want to confirm before I head to bed. This is definitely the approach you guys want to take? There isn't really any room for deliberation/amendment once a side has taken a position like this.
2/7/17, 7:36 AM - topsy: I take lack of response as final position on deal break? I'm not sure what you guys hope to gain from doing this over just amending current deal. Doing stuff like this sticks with you forever and won't help you v emeriti. Pretty lame after a good clean war that was predicated on a deal we had every intention of honoring when it seemed a possibility that you would be the winner
2/7/17, 7:38 AM - ‪crs‬: Uhm im really not sure what u issinuate here... 1 week warr and no clear winner.. we had this option to regroup and we took it.
2/7/17, 7:39 AM - topsy: Seeing as you even in this conversation noted that you had agreed to a winner takes all war and then again stated you knew that was the deal I think it's pretty clear what everyone believed was the arrangement
2/7/17, 7:40 AM - ‪crs‬: But the winner is not set yet..
2/7/17, 7:40 AM - topsy: The entire war and lack of just farming bb/Spartans and then how the war was done was on the basis of something you stated as an agreement
2/7/17, 7:40 AM - topsy: So your honest position was that what we just had was not a war
2/7/17, 7:40 AM - topsy: That is an indefensible position
2/7/17, 7:42 AM - topsy: If we had wd when up acres and not honored deal I would have intrarazed and expected to be raze killed as a kd. I noted as such throughout kd logs. There is nothing gained from taking a position like a war is not a war and thus a deal pertaining to war is not active
2/7/17, 7:43 AM - topsy: Especially absurd from your side when you have a real chance for age as long as you can make deals
2/7/17, 7:43 AM - ‪crs‬: Uh? What does bb/sparta has to do with it? What we did all age was to get fair wars.. wich we did and again ty for respecting that.. but as I sayed this war aint over. We choosed to regroup and reengage..
2/7/17, 7:45 AM - topsy: A war is a very clear activity in utopoa. There is nothing cute about making deals concerning a war and then reneging on that deal by pretending like a war was not a war.
2/7/17, 7:49 AM - topsy: If this "war" never ends would you be fine having it go on during your future ages and "battles"? It would be hard to complain about a kd you are at "war" with engaging you at any time for future of your kd.
2/7/17, 7:50 AM - topsy: Without deals and common understandings of utopia events nothing that makes the game fun becomes possible. It's why it's so rare that kds do what you are about to do.
2/7/17, 8:43 AM - topsy: Guess I tried. One of the more bizarre choices I've seen while playing. With a deal you guys can whore/explore to emeriti size while with db you have no chance of warring emeriti and permantly damage your reputation.
2/7/17, 8:51 AM - ‪crs‬: I dont understand whats all this about.. we warred, u won the war, we won the acres.. so we are preping for a b2b.. not sure from where u come with next ages open war and so on.. we fought the war clear and fair and took what we could and prep for whats next to come
2/7/17, 8:51 AM - ‪crs‬: Its common for b2b to happen..
2/7/17, 8:52 AM - ‪crs‬: Especiallt when theres no clear winner after 1 week war snd 1 week hostilem.

Topsy tried to get crs to accept the war was over and they lost the deal. At no time does crs contest we have a deal, he just states that the war is not over:
2/6/17, 6:39 PM - ‪crs‬: We lost a battle not the war.. war goes on
2/7/17, 7:40 AM - ‪crs‬: But the winner is not set yet..

Believe or not, at this point we had no plan to actually collect the acres, since with them WD'ing up in land, it was a stupid amount of acres which both morality (you might not believe it) but also practically would not be possible.
The principle of the matter became that wSk simply did not intend to live up to their deal with us, due to interpreting that "there is no winner yet", "this is just a battle" and "war goes on".

We had creds + ToG on all provinces, so we felt clear we would win B2B (we had a clear +500k unit advantage which could be seen in NW history) and while they had cows, those were undertrained and in a bad position.

Then they got waved. They said it was a DB (which it later showed it wasn't) but at the time we were upset that this supposedly dealbreak ruined a great war, so I proposed this:
[16:07, 2/9/2017] munk: like 1) we RK 5:7 to some point 2) we agree to have a war at yr 10 or whatever, where we bot have to be 5% within x acres and no kd can have >20% cow than other?
[16:07, 2/9/2017]*munk:*something like that?
[16:07, 2/9/2017]*crs:*Well we allreasy have insane cows.. u cant take that away ^

Goes on to start backing out of the deal saying it now doesn't even exist:
[16:39, 2/9/2017]*crs:*Man what we talked(there was no deal made) was that whoever wins this to have a change for eme. We never sayed yes to ur proposal wich btw was 50% of looser land wich was insane. Same as u, we wanted this to carch eme - no 2nd place option. But the conflict wasnt over.. we felt that we have better change to surr and reengage


So the situation is that 1) crs start saying there was no deal, that they've repeatedly acknowledged was there 2) made the argument that war was not over.

The reason CR then proceeded to raze was because:

1) wSk did not honor the deal they made
2) They did so by arguing the war was not over, and if the war is not over, then we can just continue to hit in the war that is still in effect by wSk definitions.


======

We have since razed ~18k land which we feel is appropriate for the above actions. We have offered to do eoacf and end it. We have stopped razes. The indications we are getting is that wSk are not accepting our offer and will seek the help of other kingdoms to go after us once their war is finished.

Top uto diplo at it's finest. I'm not saying we are perfect, we have had a mess of a leadership with sometimes not a clear leader. But our actions boiled down to the two statements above 1) dealbreak 2) insisting a war is not a war, it's only a battle and we were still in war.

[Meep]

As a general aside, the state of top diplo on here just makes me want to not play.

The deals are ridiculous
The dodging is ridiculous
The aversion to even fights is ridiculous

Gotta be a better way to play that fosters a more active competitive top.

Every age is a race to farm the overgrown ghettos first

Every notice is a coin flip of whether they'll farm out to you or dodge to farm out to your competition

When was the last age the crown wasn't largely decided via farmout?

[AquaSeaFoam]

Munk, to me it sounds like the deal was a result of a discussion to enable one of you two to get in position vs Emeriti, but it seems that the details were not clarified and that wsk took "winner" to mean the one who came out in best position while CR took winner to be the won who got the ww even if down acres and in worse position overall. Most likely, you both expected those two things would be the same and neither bothered to clarify the informal farmout clause details. Based on that, I wouldn't say that wsk dealbroke by saying that round 2 was needed to determine the "winner" since round 1, wsk finished in better position but CR got the ww.

Had wsk intentionally made a dodge war before round 2 could happen, I could understand the anger and potentially even hitting into war, but as far as I'm aware, Clash royal waved wsk completely unwanted and unexpected. You can't blame them for declaring in that situation. Last age when you waved Emeriti into their existing double hostile and Emeriti was preparing to declare you, another kingdom waved you. You declared that kingdom despite your existing active conflict. Emeriti didn't hit into your war and instead gave you a cf.

[cRs]

Mid war ur leader dubai told coss that the deal was not made official.

We had a b2b planed wirh u yes.. we got waved few h before that and we declared.

What u insinuate here is that if 2 kds plans a war and 1 is getting wavdd by annother kd its legit to raze in theyr war..