Age 71 Proposed Changes Suggestions

[Avenger]

I think we had this 'full elite oop credits avian' before (age ?) and it was a noob trap as they fell behind.

[Slayerviper]

I think we had this 'full elite oop credits avian' before (age ?) and it was a noob trap as they fell behind.

sssshhh this guy obviously needs to handicap him self more than he realizes... I guess we should be a good community and help him out....

[Bishop]

Guys, take it easy please.

[MyNameIsMatija]

I guess you never speed built buildings in protection before.

Speed building in protection has halved effectiveness. In practice this means your structure is done in 12h without other modifiers.

[Slayerviper]

Extra 4 hours of horses not bad thing pending on what you want to do as a KD oop.

[MyNameIsMatija]

I doubt the cost is worth it.
I'd rather just get more stables or something, don't know.

[Madchess]

Just now seeing the revision, I got a few remarks.

Undead - I played Undead this age and it feelt like eating a sandwitch with sand in, or to start a fight with cutting off one of my own limbs, with neither tpa nor science gooing for them they are fine getting an increase in raw power. Have leet conversion and 9/0 off specs and 15/1 elites, but I think it needs a small buff against dragons as 15 points/leet seems way to powerfull to me on overpriced lizzards since they don't even pay for their elites. Also I've noticed that they'll go from crappy ecconomy to quite decent ecconomy as they only train specs maybe their offensive specialists should cost more and elites have a higher upkeep or something. I'd also like the most powerfull elites to have the highest nw, althougth I'm not so sure if elite nw will have any impact when moving more towards land based gains as I understand it.

Avian - Looks much more playable now but attack time reduction is still making for 9 hour attack time in war, elite credits is back yay. I'd trade any of their racial spells to get tw though, they will need it if those +40% birth rate gets their peasant population to high in wars. If I was sure about the new gains formula Avian/Warhero could be a thing, start war on full specs, use credits and conversion and end it on full leets, they seems to be one of the races now whit the best flexibility on sensible personality combos.

Orc - I like the idea of a counter ballance to increased gains and kills, however the increased loses should not be for both offensive and defensive battles as they only kill more on attacks, and +20% gains seems to severe a drawback 10% would be more manageable but remove the thievery drawback and put it at +15% gains and I'd still give Orc/warhero a try. +37,5% gains, and if I adapt a strategy of hitting other orcs on +15% that would be +58,1% gains before stances, + hours and dragons are even counted, at +20% gains it would be + 65% and at +10% 51,25% Kills would be +38% of normal. Even toned down a bit I think the Orc vs Orc senario would be so destructive that you should name one of their units Canibals for that reason.

[Elldallan]

Or instead of Orc negatives being a straight +20% resources lost when attacked and +15% casualties, maybe have them more effected by ambush only (not general Trad Marches)

So Orc Negatives would be changed to:

+30% military losses when ambushed
+30% resources lost when ambushed
-10% TPA

Something Like that. Currently a semi-chain of Trad Marches is about as good as a deep chain vs an orc. straight +20% resources lost is ridiculous.. unplayable.
But if you change the effect around being ambushed (low defense elite already makes them susceptible to ambush) it adds a bit more strategic depth, and makes them playable.

If it's only on ambushes then all you have to do is anon, so the only way your suggestion would be any sort of real penalty is if orc had no access to anon whatsoever.

[jmiedema]

If it's only on ambushes then all you have to do is anon, so the only way your suggestion would be any sort of real penalty is if orc had no access to anon whatsoever.

Yea, which in turn has its own costs (no honour, 4-5 casts of anon so runes/mana, and most importantly, a large gains penalty).

So there are pluses and minuses to use it in different situations. That's healthy. I think no access to anon would hurt orc. Maybe undead it could make more sense, but not orc (if my change to their weakness were to be implemented)

[jmiedema]

I think we had this 'full elite oop credits avian' before (age ?) and it was a noob trap as they fell behind.

Yea, it was a few ages ago and it was human. And they had the strongest OOP :P that is all that was being discussed. Who will have the strongest offense 24h into the game when we first get oop. That answer is almost exclusively avian. Are they good overall? That is a different question. Are they better than undead 12-24h into the age? most definitely not if current changes stand.

Doesnt change the original point that was Avian as a race will have the best oop offense of any of the races (and especially compared to undead)

[Bart of Sparta]

Human: Fine
Orc:
-Remove +20% recourse losses when attacked
-Increase tpa nerf to -25%.
- +15% casualties on DEFENSE (including ambush of course!)
Undead:
-Reduce off spec strength to +2
Avian:
-Remove +1 off spec strength
-2 credits = 1 elite
-Remove -5% combat gains
Dwarf:
-Increase BE to +25%
-Remove +1 off spec strength
-Add Mage's Fury
Halfling:
-Reduce tpa buff to +40%
-Increase BR reduction to -25%
-Remove BE nerf
-Remove MF
-add QF
Faery: Fine
Elf: Fine

Cleric: Fine
Heretic: Fine
Mystic: Fine
Rogue: Fine
Sage: +30% science effects, +35% spawn rate, starts with +50% scientists
Tactician: Fine
Warrior: Fine
War Hero:
-Remove conversion (should be unique UD)
-Add -33% training time


Mechanics change:
-Elites slay at average value: (off + def)/2

[Elldallan]

Yea, which in turn has its own costs (no honour, 4-5 casts of anon so runes/mana, and most importantly, a large gains penalty).

So there are pluses and minuses to use it in different situations. That's healthy. I think no access to anon would hurt orc. Maybe undead it could make more sense, but not orc (if my change to their weakness were to be implemented)

Yes no access to anon would hurt Orc, that's the entire point. If you create a significant penalty that is tied to a facet that is easily avoided then you essentially force that to be avoided almost exclusively.
Anon isn't really a significant penalty for orcs, the gains penalty is negated by their inherent bonus and you can still completely strip a chain target of honour while anoning most of your attacks.

So you essentially leave Orcs with a very strong elite, bonus casualties and no significant penalties. Which would make for an unbalanced race imo, and therefore the penalties either needs to be general or if you tie it to ambush then orc needs to loose anon. You could still choose to gain access to War Spoils, but WS has a much heftier penalty that can't be avoided.

[DarkenRahl]

I think Hyrids need to be more viable. I suggest something along the lines of Patriotism also makes draft free and/or training of elites 50% cheaper for Elves DURING WAR. Or make it for Heretics but then make Patriotism harder to cast or call it another spell. Bottom line we need something to reward higher skill players for executing with a hybrid setup and improving sustainability potential during war is a great way to make that happen.

[DarkenRahl]

If a unique spell it can be a 1 and done for the training discount so that it requires proper planning with building some soldiers and cash. Just another tool in the shed for Hybrids!

[Berner...]

You want to grow the game? Restructure it for fair competition. New players quickly get dissuaded when faced with a predicament where they cant fight back. Example. A 4k acre faery SHOULD NOT be able to take 300 acres from a 2k faery. Those numbers may not be exact as far as gains and im aware that nw is relative, just a quick example. With everyone having different goals for this game, the 'top' shouldnt be allowed to fsu for smaller kd without penalties. If u want to chart, compete against like minded kds. Not these non compete clauses that has multiple 25 prov kd all age cf with each other and ransack at will bulls***. Gains for out of range provinces should get HIGHLY nerfed to put an end to this once and for all. New owners are in a unique predicament to set a new precedence in utopia. Get to it. U will have a few kd upset about it but im sure the rest of the server would appreciate the game not being catered to the few who choose to chart age after age. Hell id bet a pretty penny MOST of the server isnt out to chart. You should take a poll as to what aspects of the game people like and what their goals are. With that data, you can make a executive decision as to what direction to take this game in. As to what the haters may say, using diplo is at the discretion of whos attacking you. If they dnt choose to let up, sitting around gettin hit for a week quickly turns new players off. Getting good is out of the question if you are gettin outplayed by a kd with more provinces.