Term Interpretation Consultancy

[Bart of Sparta]

I need some consultancy from this brilliant community. It seems me and ASF cannot decide on the interpretation of the following terms:

1. EOA CF between 8:9 and 8:13.
2. EOA CF between Sparta and 8:13 (I will make sure Sparta sends over the terms as soon as their loc is known).
3. 8:9 will not compete for #1 land on individual prov charts with 8:13 (we will stay #2 so long as 8:13 has a prov on #1. Also if we are #1 and 8:13 is #2, we will make sure to drop to #2 allowing 8:13 to be #1).

Well, actually it's not that we can't agree on it, it's more that I deny that there is any form of interpretation involved as the terms are so extremely clear and well-specified (I always make sure!). Lord ASF seems to think that diplomatic interchanges that take place before the final deal is signed are part of the agreement. I think that the agreement = the agreement.

Opinions please!

[AquaSeaFoam]

The discussion seems to revolve around some details not mentioned here.

As the IRC discussion makes clear, I believe that the core of the deal is that "8:9 will not compete for #1 land with 8:13" while Bart feels that the core of the deal is the clarification of how to handle one aspect of that in parenthesis.

Specifically, Bart feels that it is perfectly valid to plot with others and actively assist others to take down 8:13 for the goal of getting himself #1 land province. This was exemplified by Bart making a deal with another kingdom to give them 25k cow acres specifically to take down 8:13 and then return those acres to give Bart #1 province land.

Bart also specifically says that it is acceptable to have provinces in his kingdom defect from his eoa cf'd and non-competing kingdom to hit 8:13 down with the goal of enabling Bart to get #1 land province.

These are the areas where we disagree on the interpretation of the agreement, the spirit of the agreement, and a good faith understanding of the agreement. The IRC agreements and promises by Bart further clarify the intent of the agreement but Bart now claims anything he agreed to or promised on IRC is invalid.

[Bart of Sparta]

The discussion seems to revolve around some details not mentioned here.

The deal was part of a long IRC discussion that included a number of additional promises by bart. Bart claims that the IRC discussion has no validity at all and anything he says on IRC is invalid.

As the IRC discussion makes clear, I believe that the core of the deal is that "8:9 will not compete for #1 land with 8:13" while Bart feels that the core of the deal is the clarification of how to handle one aspect of that in parenthesis.

Specifically, Bart feels that it is perfectly valid to plot with others and actively assist others to take down 8:13 for the goal of getting himself #1 land province. This was exemplified by Bart making a deal with another kingdom to give them 25k cow acres specifically to take down 8:13 and then return those acres to give Bart #1 province land.

Bart also specifically says that it is acceptable if he were to have provinces in his kingdom defect from his eoa cf'd and non competing kingdom to hit 8:13 down to allow Bart to get #1 land province.

These are the areas where we disagree on the interpretation of the agreement, the spirit of the agreement, and a good faith understanding of the agreement. The IRC agreements and promises by Bart further clarify the intent of the agreement but Bart now claims anything he agreed to or promised on IRC is invalid.

The discussion seems to revolve around some details not mentioned here.

The deal was part of a long IRC discussion that included a number of statements by me that were however eventually not included in the deal. I claim that these statements have no legal validity at all and any deal I make with people I distrust shall only be based on official/legal documents --> in-game signed.

I expressed to ASF that it is perfectly valid for me to plot with others to get him off his perch in order for me to grab #1 spot. However, I also expressed that atm I'm quite busy so the likeliness of that is quite low (apart from that, I don't really see any way to achieve it anyways). I would expect nothing better from ASF were he in my position.

I never said it was acceptable for provinces to defect from my Kingdom to hit you. I merely stated that I am unable to prevent it (mechanically speaking), but would try my uttermost best to keep this from happening. Currently I am very confident that this is a highly unlikely scenario hence does not merit ASF's worries.

I disagree that we disagree on the interpretation of the deal, simply because I deny that there is one. If either side were bound to the spirit of the agreement, that should've been specified (the famous "both sides shall honor the spirit of the agreement and not seek for loopholes" clause).

Anyways, as far as my interpretation goes, it is as follows:

1. ASF is EOA CFed to me + extra non-compete clauses as specified in point 3 of the agreement.
2. ASF is EOA CFed to Sparta without any clauses.

Do you disagree with this ASF?

[AquaSeaFoam]

I agree with EOA cf + non-compete for you and eoa cf without clauses for sparta. I further add that I expect those I deal with (as well as myself) to adhere to the good faith spirit of my agreements without needing a separate clause stating that people will honor the spirit of the agreement.

Those that don't honor the spirit and intent of agreements with me can expect a more difficult time in getting 'friendly' agreements in the future.

[Swagger]

edit: nvm thought this had to do with emeriti. Yea I don't care.

[Akkadian/Taylor]

edit: nvm thought this had to do with emeriti. Yea I don't care.

swagger!

[Pillz]

The discussion seems to revolve around some details not mentioned here.

As the IRC discussion makes clear, I believe that the core of the deal is that "8:9 will not compete for #1 land with 8:13" while Bart feels that the core of the deal is the clarification of how to handle one aspect of that in parenthesis.

Specifically, Bart feels that it is perfectly valid to plot with others and actively assist others to take down 8:13 for the goal of getting himself #1 land province. This was exemplified by Bart making a deal with another kingdom to give them 25k cow acres specifically to take down 8:13 and then return those acres to give Bart #1 province land.

Bart also specifically says that it is acceptable to have provinces in his kingdom defect from his eoa cf'd and non-competing kingdom to hit 8:13 down with the goal of enabling Bart to get #1 land province.

These are the areas where we disagree on the interpretation of the agreement, the spirit of the agreement, and a good faith understanding of the agreement. The IRC agreements and promises by Bart further clarify the intent of the agreement but Bart now claims anything he agreed to or promised on IRC is invalid.

Nothing you've described above violates the terms posted by Bart. Not that you care, seeing as how you feel entitled to do whatever you want regardless of what you or anyone else has said on the matter previously.

From what's been posted in this thread, Bart hasn't violated anything. But I'm sure you'll still encourage KDs to DB him as you did with RoO

[Palem]

You agreed not to compete with him for #1 land and then continued to compete with him for #1 land.

This is yet another instance of Bart doing everything he can to convince the utopia community to never honor a deal he makes.

[Goodwitch]

personally I think both should be deleted for chart shaping...any form of non compete agreement is chart shaping in my book. Usually it's hard to prove that such agreements really exist but since these two readily admitted and quoted such agreement it's easy in this case.

[Pillz]

You agreed not to compete with him for #1 land and then continued to compete with him for #1 land.

This is yet another instance of Bart doing everything he can to convince the utopia community to never honor a deal he makes.

He isn't competing according to that. Sounds like other people are trying to stop MEGA. The terms don't state that Bart can't crown, merely that he can't crown if MEGA is #2.

[Band of Horses]

Bart clearly out lawyered ASF. And ASF is within his rights to not give good deals to Bart in the future. "Spirit of the agreement" is pretty funny to me coming from abs

[Palem]

He isn't competing according to that. Sounds like other people are trying to stop MEGA. The terms don't state that Bart can't crown, merely that he can't crown if MEGA is #2.

Actually it does. Term #3 clearly states
"8:9 will not compete for #1 land on individual prov charts with 8:13"

Maybe if Bart had been more specific in his language to say that he would not directly compete against 8:13, then working with people to drop him out wouldn't break that term. Also, additional explanations on how he planned to handle a #1&2 position finish also do nothing in amending the term in which he agreed to not compete against 8:13. Working against and making plans to finish #1 over ASF is quite literally the definition of competing.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Obvious uto-lawyer ownage by Bart. Well done Bart.

[Bart of Sparta]

Im starting a virtual lawyering firm next age. Anyone can hire me to lawyer their deals for a meagre cost of 10 credits. I will also make sure the deals are kept by threat of force.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Friends discount?
I have a name-change that I've never used somewhere.