Term Interpretation Consultancy

[Bart of Sparta]

Waiting for Palem to ban himself for his sexist remarks toward Mirana.

[Palem]

So is it then a DB if Kingdom A orchestrates a GB on Kingdom B whom they have A) an EoACF with or B) CF with a notice clause?

I think that depends on the motivation if they're just trying to power play the kingdom for their own interests then it's a dealbreak. If they're trying to police poor ethics then it's policing.

I realize those lines are almost always blurred so it's really just however the person understanding the situation interprets it.

Waiting for Palem to ban himself for his sexist remarks toward Mirana.

What are you even talking about?

[MyNameIsMatija]

What are you even talking about?

Actually, yeah? I don't get it either.

[Pillz]

I think that depends on the motivation if they're just trying to power play the kingdom for their own interests then it's a dealbreak. If they're trying to police poor ethics then it's policing.

I realize those lines are almost always blurred so it's really just however the person understanding the situation interprets it.

What is policing except power playing for your own interests? There is no such thing as poor ethics in Utopia. Any attempt to punish 'poor ethics' is just a self-serving attempt to encourage one's own preferred set of rules.

And in any event, the community at large has expressed a significant amount of dissatisfaction with 8:13's use of sitting and farm wars, both of which can be construed as 'poor ethics'. Maybe Bart should merely declare this a police action in that case?

Im sure many people feel MEGA is undeserving of a crown they abused farm wars to get...

[AquaSeaFoam]

Same situation here. The terms were specifically signed in this way because I told ASF I wasnt gonna non-compete if he wasnt in a position to crown anyways.

Actually this is false. You never said you wouldn't agree to that. I specifically offered you that as a show of good will to not hold you back in the event we weren't in competition through no fault of you. You stated you had no eyes for #1 and wouldn't get close to it anyway.

Hammertime will you do a non compete with us?
Heaven non compete?
Heaven as in agreeing to not finish above you/
Hammertime yeah, just for #1 prov only if in competition
Heaven oh
Heaven I dun need that
Heaven and we won't get close to that anyways
Heaven but sure

There were some threats involved too, but not over the non compete. The threats were over our proposal for one free hit for cf.

Heaven look
Heaven I don't like spelling this out
Heaven but basically if I wanted I could get 4-5 KDs to hit you (there are many people that owe me favors). But since ur not the typical FSU KD
Heaven I'm trying my uttermost best here
Heaven to be civil
Hammertime I appreciate that
Heaven I want u guys to have fun
Heaven and just do ur thing
Heaven but I got a rep
Heaven in uto
Heaven if I start handing out land
Heaven I destroy a rep that I built for 7-8 ages
Heaven that has left plenty of corpses
Heaven and I mean
Heaven why would my friends give you a free pass
Heaven if yuo're gonna tax others (me in this case)
....
Heaven I mean
Heaven I'm fully planning to have an age off
Heaven and not focus too much on uto
Heaven but I also know myself, once I commit myself to something (a grudge) I don't easily hold
Heaven I dunno if u ever frequent the forums
Heaven http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...gh-Bart-(X-XX)
Heaven http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...-hitting-on-CD


Bart reassured me that the deal and non-compete meant not only that he wouldn't hit us, but also that he would leave us alone fully (including not coordinating with anyone else against us). In fact he was quite friendly and happy to get the cf since we could have completely farmed him and even offering to help us get more cf's etc.

Heaven the arrangement is that you won't hit us for the age
Heaven in exchange I will leave you guys alone fully, and will help you get ur Cfs


Also, just for clarification, this recent discussion wasn't about his previous actions of coordinating with another kingdom to loan them 25k cow acres to hit us down and then give them back to Bart for #1 province. This discussion was about if he planned to do any new things. For example, Bart felt that defecting one of his big provinces to hit us down would be acceptable under our agreement while I disagreed with that interpretation.

[MyNameIsMatija]

I don't see the issue. Bart is #2, you are #1 (from what I can tell in this thread). You are not being GBed by anyone.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Matija, Keep in mind it is Bart that made this thread, not me.

[Pillz]

Actually this is false. You never said you wouldn't agree to that. I specifically offered you that as a show of good will to not hold you back in the event we weren't in competition through no fault of you. You stated you had no eyes for #1 and wouldn't get close to it anyway.

Hammertime will you do a non compete with us?
Heaven non compete?
Heaven as in agreeing to not finish above you/
Hammertime yeah, just for #1 prov only if in competition
Heaven oh
Heaven I dun need that
Heaven and we won't get close to that anyways
Heaven but sure

There were some threats involved too, but not over the non compete. The threats were over our proposal for one free hit for cf.

Heaven look
Heaven I don't like spelling this out
Heaven but basically if I wanted I could get 4-5 KDs to hit you (there are many people that owe me favors). But since ur not the typical FSU KD
Heaven I'm trying my uttermost best here
Heaven to be civil
Hammertime I appreciate that
Heaven I want u guys to have fun
Heaven and just do ur thing
Heaven but I got a rep
Heaven in uto
Heaven if I start handing out land
Heaven I destroy a rep that I built for 7-8 ages
Heaven that has left plenty of corpses
Heaven and I mean
Heaven why would my friends give you a free pass
Heaven if yuo're gonna tax others (me in this case)
....
Heaven I mean
Heaven I'm fully planning to have an age off
Heaven and not focus too much on uto
Heaven but I also know myself, once I commit myself to something (a grudge) I don't easily hold
Heaven I dunno if u ever frequent the forums
Heaven http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...gh-Bart-(X-XX)
Heaven http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...-hitting-on-CD


Bart reassured me that the deal and non-compete meant not only that he wouldn't hit us, but also that he would leave us alone fully (including not coordinating with anyone else against us). In fact he was quite friendly and happy to get the cf since we could have completely farmed him and even offering to help us get more cf's etc.

Heaven the arrangement is that you won't hit us for the age
Heaven in exchange I will leave you guys alone fully, and will help you get ur Cfs


Also, just for clarification, this recent discussion wasn't about if his previous actions of coordinating with another kingdom to loan them 25k cow acres to hit us down and then give them back to Bart for #1 province. This discussion was about if he planned to do any new things. For example, Bart felt that defecting one of his big provinces to hit us down would be acceptable under our agreement while I disagreed with that interpretation.

You'd have to prove the defected provs were acting on Bart's orders. Good luck with that.

[AquaSeaFoam]

You'd have to prove the defected provs were acting on Bart's orders. Good luck with that.

Steel,
Some people are men (or women) of their word. Others word only goes so far as what is provable even when transparently obvious. I see which category you fall under.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Your signed terms got too vague from the standpoint of what you initially wanted to accomplish it seems.

[Pillz]

Steel,
Some people are men (or women) of their word. Others word only goes so far as what is provable even when transparently obvious. I see which category you fall under.

The same one you do.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Yet, here I am arguing for keeping your word and the spirit of agreements and I bet no one can give any examples of when I didn't do this.

[Onlyzinc]

Both should be deleted for chart manipulation

[Bart of Sparta]

Im fine with both our provs being deleted. But thats up to the admins.

[AquaSeaFoam]

First of all, chart manipulation isn't against the utopian code, it's against player based ethics. Secondly, I'm not clear on how giving a weaker kingdom a free cf with the condition that they don't compete for #1 against them is anything unusual. Most of the top kingdoms all have similar deals with others.

The only unusual chart manipulation was Bart transferring land from his kingdom to another kingdom and then taking that land back on his top two provinces.