Also I think elf heretic is a waste on mage side heretics don't get near the good spells mystics do, snd I could always fb on just about any type of prov, nm is little hare but I'm sure on the hitters I'll primarily be casting on will be easy targets for my heretic. Elf I see as good for the offense with 9/7 leet but otherwise wasteful overkill on wpa u really only need as mystic and primarily defensive thieving which like I said I find as lame way to waste rogue like talent, like I said halfer much better offensive thief.