*WHY* are Guilds, Labs, and Libs immune to BE?

[Gidoza]

This question has been haunting me since I started playing again, because I'm not sure of the reason. The immune to BE for these buildings allows for efficient use of acres when it otherwise wouldn't be possible, and otherwise penalizes provinces that have a good running BE. I get why Homes ignore BE (because they're like the armchair to improve it), but why should these other buildings be exempt? Is there some logic to this?

[octobrev]

Libs were originally not affected by BE because they also enhanced BE and created an infinite loop of interdependence. Labs eventually replaced libs and continued to not be affected by BE, presumably as an oversight as no such loop would occur. Guilds were changed so that wizard production wouldn't be affected on highly drafted provs that were idling around between war because it was the trend at the time to give warring kingdoms all kinds of crutches to minimize their downtime between conflicts.

[Gidoza]

Oh yes, I remember old Libs being unaffected by BE and always found it funny because there's no need to have the loop - you could have the BE value only based on the BE value before the Lib boost.

Anyways, thanks for the response. It seems to me like there isn't a really good reason for Labs to have this BE evasion, and since Mystics got +150% to Guild effectiveness it sure picks up the pace for them. Nothing's stopping anyone from running some 60% Guilds during a CF either. If anything were to be changed, I would think that the 100% BE cap should be a bit easier to acquire when the appropriate number of peasants exist. Anyways, I'm Mystic myself - and I just don't see the boost for as necessary, either for Wizard production or for self-spell duration.

[octobrev]

Suppose so!

[RedPanda]

Oh yes, I remember old Libs being unaffected by BE and always found it funny because there's no need to have the loop - you could have the BE value only based on the BE value before the Lib boost..

And you just explained what is "unaffected by BE" in math terms...........

[Gidoza]

And you just explained what is "unaffected by BE" in math terms...........

Not exactly as I didn't choose my words correctly.

Your BE can be a [natural] 80% with a sci boost of 10%, which would be 88%. Thus my suggestion is that the Libs would be functioning at 88%. That would of course increase your BE science - but instead of having it loop at that point, you just ignore the boost the Libs gave back to the science.

The second way of doing it is that Libs take natural BE only and aren't affected by the science bonus, thus no loop.

Neither of these is equivalent to "unaffected by BE" at all.

[W1nd]

Count yourself lucky when your BE is in the dumps you still have all the full benefits of the buildings built. Do skilled players really need more advantage?

[Gidoza]

Count yourself lucky when your BE is in the dumps you still have all the full benefits of the buildings built. Do skilled players really need more advantage?

I don't see how being skilled changes much of anything when your BE is in the dumps. Skill won't magically fix your BE. The best you can do is run more Guilds in the first place - and what's wrong with that?

[W1nd]

There are things you can do to prevent your BE from tanking - also it is a waste of build space :D There is always something you can do.

[Gidoza]

There are things you can do to prevent your BE from tanking - also it is a waste of build space :D There is always something you can do.

I guess that depends on how badly you need self-spells. And yeah you can prevent your BE from tanking - to a degree - but when you get FB to 1000 peasants your BE will tank no matter how much planning you have, so I still fail to see how this is a skilled player thing.

[W1nd]

Every situation is different and the faster you respond to it or take steps to prevent it from happening the better off you will be. More skilled players can see these things coming when entering a war for instance and will ask for the right support spells and cast the ones they need. Just one example, and as for FB you need more homes to increase birthrate.

[StratOcastle]

I remember dwarf addiction when dwarves had free build. BE is the top players opium to the ghetto players cigarettes for free build.

When I switched races the next age the withdrawals set in at the very beginning.
“Mind if I open a window? I feel like I’m wearing a wool sweater infested with ants!”

But yeah. Soldier aid by high pop, high BR gnomes is one solution. Providing you attack the FB casting entities either through theft, LS, massacre, etc, you can release the soldiers to peasants with L&P and get the ball rolling. Dwarf core, gnome sub core.