So, who's a Republican here?

[stoffi]

It's sad to see how effective the media's smear campaigns are. I can see that the Ron Paul is crazy message has fit nicely into your skulls. Do you people listen to the debates? All those other candidates speak for ages w.o saying a single word. Ron Paul was the only candidate who would engage in discourse at all, he even sites historical examples as evidence. Everyone else was just stumbling over one another to shout their committee approved talking points at the camera. Go take some classes on debate and re-watch the 2008, 2012 debates and tell me Ron Paul is anything but a lucid champion of reason.

I don't watch/read American media because much of it is probably the most biased in the world, and I'm Norwegian.

I've not read much about what people SAY about Ron Paul, I've read what he STANDS for. Even though he is a sensible guy unlike republican candidates, his opinions are quite out there.

But seriously, who the hell votes republican? I can see why people would vote for a lot of political parties in my own country, but I really cannot see why anyone would vote for ignorance and fundamentalism unless they are ignorant themselves, which probably is a key factor here....

[thephatman]

I don't watch/read American media because much of it is probably the most biased in the world, and I'm Norwegian.

I've not read much about what people SAY about Ron Paul, I've read what he STANDS for. Even though he is a sensible guy unlike republican candidates, his opinions are quite out there.

But seriously, who the hell votes republican? I can see why people would vote for a lot of political parties in my own country, but I really cannot see why anyone would vote for ignorance and fundamentalism unless they are ignorant themselves, which probably is a key factor here....

If you think there is any difference between Democrat and Republican parties than you have failed to read accurately.

Both parties candidates swear they are "Christians" and persuade the Mega Church/fundamentalist leaders to support their campaigns.

Both parties support the "war on terror" including the assassination of US citizen w.o trial.

Both parties support NDAA martial law authorization.

Both parties support war in Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc, etc....

Just look at the flawless transition between Bush and Obama. There is literally no difference in their foreign policy. They are both imperialists stooges loyal to the corporate elite. Pre 9-11, the bush administration planned to do regime change in 7 counties Afganistan, Iraq, Venezuela, Libya, Sryia, Yemen and finally Iran. This information comes from a state dept; doc titled "project for a new american century". Bush invaded 2 and attempted a coup d'tat in another. Obama has bombed a 4th and aided rebels in the 5th. We have also been doing covert ops assassination + sabotage in Iran since 2007. Obama has increased the funding to these operations from 400mil/year to over billion.

There is only one political will in America. The failed campaign of Ron Paul despite support from over 30% of the country is proof that alternate ideas are not allowed. If you followed the republican primary at all you would know that Ron Paul won the state of Iowa ( the 1st state to vote in the primaries aka very important to win) It was only after 30,000 votes from 3 Pro Paul Counties went uncounted in the final tallies that they declared Ron Paul as tied for 2nd. In the weeks the followed the Republican election commissioner was forced to resign in disgrace after the uncounted votes became public knowledge. With out this act of overt election fraud, (not widely reported in US media) the media slander that Paul is "unelectable" would have had little merit and I suspect Paul would have won the primary. I've wrote about this more with citations in the "How did america get so ****ty" thread.

But seriously. Obama = Bush, Bush = Obama, Obama = Romney. These men can only be defined separably by a handful of trivial social issues like gay marriage. Rarely are these red herrings ever legislated by the candidates in office.

[stoffi]

If you think there is any difference between Democrat and Republican parties than you have failed to read accurately.

Both parties candidates swear they are "Christians" and persuade the Mega Church/fundamentalist leaders to support their campaigns.

Both parties support the "war on terror" including the assassination of US citizen w.o trial.

Both parties support NDAA martial law authorization.

Both parties support war in Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc, etc....

Just look at the flawless transition between Bush and Obama. There is literally no difference in their foreign policy. They are both imperialists stooges loyal to the corporate elite. Pre 9-11, the bush administration planned to do regime change in 7 counties Afganistan, Iraq, Venezuela, Libya, Sryia, Yemen and finally Iran. This information comes from a state dept; doc titled "project for a new american century". Bush invaded 2 and attempted a coup d'tat in another. Obama has bombed a 4th and aided rebels in the 5th. We have also been doing covert ops assassination + sabotage in Iran since 2007. Obama has increased the funding to these operations from 400mil/year to over billion.

There is only one political will in America. The failed campaign of Ron Paul despite support from over 30% of the country is proof that alternate ideas are not allowed. If you followed the republican primary at all you would know that Ron Paul won the state of Iowa ( the 1st state to vote in the primaries aka very important to win) It was only after 30,000 votes from 3 Pro Paul Counties went uncounted in the final tallies that they declared Ron Paul as tied for 2nd. In the weeks the followed the Republican election commissioner was forced to resign in disgrace after the uncounted votes became public knowledge. With out this act of overt election fraud, (not widely reported in US media) the media slander that Paul is "unelectable" would have had little merit and I suspect Paul would have won the primary. I've wrote about this more with citations in the "How did america get so ****ty" thread.

But seriously. Obama = Bush, Bush = Obama, Obama = Romney. These men can only be defined separably by a handful of trivial social issues like gay marriage. Rarely are these red herrings ever legislated by the candidates in office.

I disagree. They have many similiarities, yes, but they are still very different in many ways. The most visible difference is that Republicans are run by religious fanatism combined with a misunderstood patriotism. But compared to other countries political parties, they are very similar, as you say. But still there are big differences.

And bombing Libya is something completely different than Iraq.

And again, I'm not American.

[thephatman]

Obama is a "religious fanatic" as well. Just like republicans he courts southern mega churches for support from the religious leadership. Remember that guy Farrakhan. No candidate stands any chance of winning unless he is a "religious fanatic". As far as patriotism goes the Dem's seem happy to blow the trumpet, under their control we have legalized martial law, 2 new intelligence bills, legalized murder of US citizen w.o trial, Indefinite detention of citizens w.o trial, and even more wars. All justified by wishy washy patriotism. Also from my experience with Russian, German and British news casts you euro folk get the same watered down bull **** as everyone else.

The only difference between Libya and Iraq is there wasn't an american occupation following the shock and awe. Why, IMO it was to punish the Libyan people for Muammar Gaddafi. At least in Iraq we stayed to hold the pieces together. The Kurds sure are thankful for that. In the wake of Gaddafi's assassination and the disassembly of his military there are now AQ forces in control, a long with half a dozen rival warlords. This chaos has now spread to Mali. OH boy!

"how dare he try to form an North African trade union that would allow African nations to trade oil for gold instead of dollars" Said the west.

Face it, your wrong they are 99.99999% identical. The differences you see are an illusion created by narrow minded pundits and cartoons. It might help you to realize this if you ignore what the politicians say and judge them only by their actions. Look at the record. This is the best conclusion. You say you disagree but you fail to contest my strongest point. Look at the flawless transition between Bush and Obama. Obama has continued the exact strategy of PNAC from the Bush era point by point. Explain this.

[Landro]

When you ask people from outside the US about Republicans, most will think of this
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/p...ns/Rainbow.htm

It's ironic that it was Republican president Abraham Lincoln who abolished slavery while Jefferson Davis was a member of the Democratic party ;)

[Darkz Azn]

well...i discover while traveling in asia that fox and cnn are the only english speaking politic channel outside of the US. despite the usual discovery/nat geo/bbc... the only form of media i understood was from fox/cnn... i. can see why the rest of the world think us is so **** up :)

*Im a register republican, but i vote for indie ...

[ants in my pants]

american idiots. is it ok to say that? i'm american. that's just how i feel. bunch of ****ing idiots watching thier roman circus.

[NemesisOfUtopia]

Republicans suck. I'm a classical liberal, yet I still don't support Republican's version of "limited government".

[Cloud Strife]

I am not a Republican, but I have Republican friends and lovers.

Classic philosophers from a bygone era have a raging debate on the very concept of Republicans.

[himmlersberg]

Why should gay be legal, it is immoral? Why should abortion be legal its killing people?

[Elldallan]

Why should gay be legal, it is immoral?

What's immoral about it and why? Oh right... because "GOD" says so?

[P_J]

What's immoral about it and why? Oh right... because "GOD" says so?

There are some people who live by the morals of the Bible -- so yes - it is because "God says so". If you disagree, that is fine, but please respect other people strong foundation of living just as others respect your views.

I am joining this convo late --so forgive me early if I sound like an idiot.

I would also like to point out, - nowhere is any serious republican or serious christian saying that it is 'illegal' to be Gay. That is a flat out lie. You can be LBGT in US and have every right as a citizen of the United States to live freely. From a Christian perspective, everyone has free will and CHOOSES to follow, or not, God. Most christians will accept a LBGT, just as non-christians... it is in their DNA as christians (all of us are sinners...GOd doesn't rank one aboe the other). If you think that Christians go around hating LBGT, than that is a flat out lie that mainstream media and so many other forces want you to believe. Google the example upon example of compassion and love christians extend towards the LBGT community... then google all the compassion and love that the LBGT community extends towards the christian community and see what good fruit is where. Always look at the fruit of a situation.

What is the debate and the battle of ideas is gay MARRIAGE and the pushing of society laws that favor one end of the battle of ideas...or vice verse the marginalizing of christian values or christian based laws (like the whole foundation of marriage that this portion was based off in Europe and US). That is a debate... that should go through the law system. It is easy to play a victim card or twist a conversation saying people are making being gay illegal and making the debate about bigotry or discrimination...and eventually make it an emotional battle which wins in America (we voted for a president with no credentials? Because...why..he says the right things?). But the reality: it is about changing laws -- and the field is wide open to play fairly. If one wants to change the definition of marriage, then keep trying through the legislature and the battle of ideas and morals while extending respect towards others.

I am a christian. I am very conservative. I have great compassion and respect for people who live the gay lifestyle and others... just as Christ would lead me (he rejected the 'religion' of his jewish heritage and ate with the sinners and publicans which is a big no-no ..one example). That doesn't mean I have to accept their moral behavior as the right way of living and reject the word of my God. Call it bigotry or discrimination, but the reality is I absolutely respect people's free will and love the fact that it is the goodness of God that leads people to repentance, not a thrashing of religion which is what my Lord rejected absolutely.
Moral choices will bring about the fruit of those choices...and that can be observed and debated within our limited law systems. What I want to emphasize is that no-one is saying being gay is illegal in the US. What is illegal is to change the established definition of laws without going through the process of changing those laws (like our Fed denying state's rights...see the news TODAY). If you have an issue with gay marriage, seek to change it. THe problem is that it is not so easy as saying I am a victim of discrimination and marginalizing Christians as hate mongers... which is the complete opposite of reality (their are always exceptions... Westboro baptist Chirch ect ect ect).

[Palem]

Most christians will accept a LBGT, just as non-christians... it is in their DNA as christians (all of us are sinners...GOd doesn't rank one aboe the other). If you think that Christians go around hating LBGT, than that is a flat out lie that mainstream media and so many other forces want you to believe.

This is a false. I'm pretty sure the next quote is the reason why you think this...

I am a christian. I am very conservative. I have great compassion and respect for people who live the gay lifestyle and others... just as Christ would lead me (he rejected the 'religion' of his jewish heritage and ate with the sinners and publicans which is a big no-no ..one example). That doesn't mean I have to accept their moral behavior as the right way of living and reject the word of my God.

Now, I've got no reason to believe you aren't a loving and compassionate Christian, so I won't. The problem here is that you're assuming that you're the typical Christian and most Christians have the ideology that you follow, and this is simply not the case.

Now, I'm not saying that most Christians are hate mongering gay bashers (like the WBC or Neo-nazi's or what have you), nor am I saying that Christians who don't respect gay people are these objectively bad people. The honest truth of the matter is that the vast majority of "Christians" are just really bad Christians and don't have a very good idea at all of principles of Christianity.

The problem is that Christianity, for the longest time, has been breeding homophobia in the same way that it's been breeding contempt for things like murder or stealing and a "casual Christian" who just shows up to church every Sunday most likely isn't going to understand the complicated stance of the Church that being gay is fine, but acting gay isn't. Which you might argue is still a little backwards, but it's certainly a nicer stance that what most Christians understand as "You're gay, so you're bad."

This video shows exactly what I mean. The little Mexican lady, who is clearly Christian and the old lady that just blatantly says it's wrong in the Bible, neither seem like some sort of vicious, mean people. They've just got very little respect for gay people, and that lack of respect is a "result" of her Christian beliefs (most likely)

You don't need to think that Christians are vicious hate mongers that plant bombs at gay weddings with "Die ******s!" painted on them to think that Christian values are a detriment to establishing equality in the country. When you put an entire group of people into some sort of category that makes them "less" than others, then yes, you're discriminating and that discrimination can be seen as hate.

[Bishop]

It's ok to be a bigot and homophobic if you are religious though. Did you not get that memo?

[tras19]

im a libertarian.