Severely Punish the OOW RAZES!

Hey,

You did implement the Fake Wars punishment which is fantastic.

OOW razes and GB is far worse than the fake wars. This should be punished also and it is very easy to realize that razes OOW are targeted purely for an "unfair method of manipulating the wins".

Why would any sober and honorable player do Razes into someone else war? There is no gain from that.

Punish the OOW razes the same as Fake Wars!

A few plunders/learns/TM in OOW is no problem. That happened always and it will still happen. You can't control that and it is part of the game.

But RAZES is totally different.

Maybe even take away the "raze" option for OOW hits? if it is not too much trouble for the Developers.

Your suggestion does not appear well thought out to me. It would not be good to totally remove raze, raze is needed to take out UB provs out of NW range or any other prov out of NW range.

Razekill into war creates so many abuse possibilities it's not even funny. Either restrict razekill into war, or do away with overly generous war protections and drop the bull****.

The mechanic allowing razekill into war basically means wars and the game is won by consent far too much, once some buttheads get on a high horse and decides to action a kingdom they don't like.

Razing into war by itself is fine. It's razekill into war that creates the worst potential for abuse, one which should be resolved by removing the 15 acre minimum for razing into war. An alternative would be to allow raze to destroy some acres in war, but this still leads to the same sort of abuses.

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Originally Posted by noobium

Razekill into war creates so many abuse possibilities it's not even funny. Either restrict razekill into war, or do away with overly generous war protections and drop the bull****.

The mechanic allowing razekill into war basically means wars and the game is won by consent far too much, once some buttheads get on a high horse and decides to action a kingdom they don't like.

Razing into war by itself is fine. It's razekill into war that creates the worst potential for abuse, one which should be resolved by removing the 15 acre minimum for razing into war. An alternative would be to allow raze to destroy some acres in war, but this still leads to the same sort of abuses.

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I disagree, but I do not strongly disagree... I've rarely ever had anyone, I think maybe 2 times ever, had a kingdom raze into one of my wars.

I haven't seen a lot of razing into war. Last time it happened on a large scale to me, I think raze in war destroyed all acres.
That only exists because of a very flimsy code of honor not to do so among the community, and lately that code of honor has been broken more often. With the incentives built into the game to favor razing into war, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. It is certainly unbalancing, when a kingdom sitting in fort stance can plink away and wreck a kingdom's war at little cost, and if the offended kingdom doesn't have friends they're SOL. With friends, wars would degenerate into a ****fest of interference.
Get rid of razekill into war and the worst abuse of this system is curtailed - no one can easily razekill from outside any more. Hits into war could still assist a PK but it would require coordinating with the kd at war and using peasant kills.

The only other alternative I can see is to make province kills less painful, by allowing pk'd provs to retain science and rejoin a fight sooner. This of course is something made worse by a rule patch shortly after 24hr protection was implemented.

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Originally Posted by noobium

I haven't seen a lot of razing into war. Last time it happened on a large scale to me, I think raze in war destroyed all acres.
That only exists because of a very flimsy code of honor not to do so among the community, and lately that code of honor has been broken more often. With the incentives built into the game to favor razing into war, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. It is certainly unbalancing, when a kingdom sitting in fort stance can plink away and wreck a kingdom's war at little cost, and if the offended kingdom doesn't have friends they're SOL. With friends, wars would degenerate into a ****fest of interference.
Get rid of razekill into war and the worst abuse of this system is curtailed - no one can easily razekill from outside any more. Hits into war could still assist a PK but it would require coordinating with the kd at war and using peasant kills.

The only other alternative I can see is to make province kills less painful, by allowing pk'd provs to retain science and rejoin a fight sooner. This of course is something made worse by a rule patch shortly after 24hr protection was implemented.

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I always thought it was good to know that if a huge kingdom wanted to severally bully me, I could wait until they go to war and raze kill them. I never have done that tho.

I disagree with making PK less painful...if you do that than pk is pointless.

The devs argument is that if they disallow hits into war it would lead to more fake wars.

I think most fake wars are fairly easily found out and can be properly punished by the devs.

Being able to hit into war however gives too much room for foul play. As can be seen in game currently.

But since a lot of people want to keep the possibility to hit into wars, maybe they could increase attack times when hitting into a war(gains are already reduced) and make razes only take buildings when hitting someone in war. I never quite understood why the war protection against land razes only extends to your opponent and not everybody getting involved in the war.

... Yes allow Kingdom A to do a suicide wave on Kingdom B, only to run to arranged war with Kingdom C. Leaving Kingdom B unable to retal.

This sounds like an awesome idea.

Note: Vlahul, all your ideas has been debated plenty of times before. Read this very forum from A to Z, maybe just the past year, and then stop making threads about stuff already dismissed x 10.

Thx brah!

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

The devs argument is that if they disallow hits into war it would lead to more fake wars.

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That's only 1 argument. There are plenty of others:

-The community needs a way to police itself (not just policing actual rule breakers, but things that the community doesn't like)
-Utopia is not 1v1. It's 1vEveryone. To assume complete protection from the rest of the game just because you're at war is wrong.
-Razing into wars is not without consequences (both from the community and from mechanics)

Make all out of war hits incur a 50% reduction to total honor for each prov, during each offense, and that problem will likely resolve itself.

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Originally Posted by olAllan

Make all out of war hits incur a 50% reduction to total honor for each prov, during each offense, and that problem will likely resolve itself.

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Are you saying each prov who hits into a war looses 50% of their honor? I think to make hitting into other peoples war that it might be a good idea, but 50% is way way too much, they should loose like .005% of their total honor plus the honor gain for hitting into the war (if any) should be negated, so that after the hit you end up wiht .005% less honor than you started. I'm not sure if its a good idea but it might be.

Lol, yeah that's beyond the pale.

Solution to your issue is simple: don't piss people off. If people raze into your war, you most likely did something to deserve it.

Not always a reason. There have been a few cases of a troll kingdom, usually a ghetto, deciding to raze into wars precisely because they could get away with it and thought it was cute.

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Originally Posted by noobium

Not always a reason. There have been a few cases of a troll kingdom, usually a ghetto, deciding to raze into wars precisely because they could get away with it and thought it was cute.

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It's a war game...2-on-1 happens. There's always a douche that thinks he can get away with it. Just deal punishment after the war or repay the debt...