I'll say it again...people need to chill out
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I'll say it again...people need to chill out
You tell em Pam!
100 $ per post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drug
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Originally Posted by Elldallan
You just stole every single answer I was about to type in response to that post.
bastard
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Originally Posted by Elit
And there went Anris chance to pay you to quit Utopia.
We are all doomed
If thats a fact, its a new low for the forums. Also, the ****face have been logged in more on the forums today then he has been ingame the past month.Quote:
Originally Posted by munk
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13nesta13
Im curious, how often do you get to fight kds with their 6 top provs at 100 nw/acre? Cause if you concider the state ED was in to be a tough fight, boy u guys are in for a ride up there.
Did you see our state then? Its all relative. They had 120 mil gold to train up with, we had 40 mil or so. When we arranged the war, we had 120 NWPA and were very unpumped too. EDIT: posted the nw/land tracker on my cow but forum censored it. If you bothered enough you can just find it at ******************.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai
Our two "cows" (if you can even call them that) had less than 4 days to pump, and was 120 NWPA before we took up the fight.
My disclaimer before I go on to write anymore: I believe this is purely my speculation on how they prepared. Only Parth can verify.
Parth made the conscious decision to pump up the 2 big avians using the 5-6 hybrids he just doubled to optimise use of resources, simply because for 2 reasons. #1 It helps them clear their TB deficit, so that once war starts, the big cow can actually pump them at less cost/tax. #2 They feel that realistically we cant drop all 5 hybrids even if they werent pumped, since we weren't too pumped either, and also because of NW gap. In time to come, at least 2-3 of these hybrids will be pumped to a good enough state by big cow for them to take part in the action and they were willing to sacrifice 2-3 of that whole bunch of hybrids to achieve it.
The end result? The 2 big avians sat on 175+ NWPA with >73% drafted and trained, and full war build (not to mention high def, high rax, high GS and also hospitals on clerics), vs our big avians at 69% draft and half converted. I dont know how you see it, but on my end, pretty tough. You look at 115 NWPA hybrids on their end and you think we jumped in on an easy war, but did you see the 2 big avians? I am almost 100% sure if Fratzia didnt hit in, at least 2 of their 115 NWPA hybrids would be 155-165 NWPA by now, just 24h into the war. How ED chooses to expend its resources in its own war prep, we cannot interfere, but it looks like we were on the backfoot from the moment we agreed to war, considering the total resources available to them and the fact that they started their prep earlier, since they got noticed earlier.
The fact that we used our resources evenly across the KD to prepare for the war is very much my call and decision, and the same can be said about ED in theirs. When we both engaged our KD NWPA were very much close to each other.
>you'reQuote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
top lel
Was there any agreement forbidding action if on side went to war? The way ED conducted this was begging for trouble, if you get noticed and don't want to fight try some diplo and fork over a few acres in exchange for a CF, or as Elit has said in this thread, run 25-24h before the notice runs out, that way you have full war protection and the one who noticed has a chance to avoid training up and expending significant resources. Just going mute and running 1h before notice runs out is begging for problems because significant resources has been expended and they will want something for that effort and they'll have excellent to pretty decent gains for the next 24 hours while you have the full -75%.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
Agreed, ED doesn't owe Fratzia anything but neither does Fratzia. War is not sacrosanct and if you cover yourself in grease and hang pieces of raw meat around your neck and thengo running around naked in the middle of a pack of rabid half-starved wolves you're gonna get bitten.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
Most kingdoms have the sense to put in a clause saying that notice can't be given during war, but if there is no such clause then yes you can notice and start hitting into war/eowcf however much you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
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Originally Posted by Elldallan
All of your arguments seem to come from trying to play a devils advocate point of view rather than attempting to logically think out the situations.
It's your opinion that ED should need to do dip to get out of a situation, however when you consider the situation ED was in then you have to ask why should they? We had an agreement with Fratzia that our CF would end after 48 hours notice given by either side, that was the extent of the agreement there was no indication that an end to a CF would automatically lead to the other KD being waved (you can try to argue that it makes sense logically that this would happen, but this isn't a question of trying to second guess a KDs actions it's a point of what was agreed up to the end of a CF).
ED had already been told that they weren't a target for Fratzia and became uncontactable after that point, does that mean ED had an agreement with them? No of course it doesn't but it was the situation ED was told they were in.
The resources Fratzia expended are irrelevant, in your head they might not be but in reality they are because at no point did Fratzia have a guarantee that ED would be sitting there waiting to be farmed.
Fratzia made the gaming choice to train up in expectation that they would have a target, ED made the gaming choice to ask a KD for a war before notice expired, up to this point neither KD are in the wrong as they've broken no game rules and no agreements with each other. You can claim ED running to another war is "**** play" but that's an opinion which is quite clearly not shared by everyone (as opposed to the opinion that OOW hits into a real war are scummy which almost everyone will agree with).
This is on the level of ED trying to claim that Coss saying Fratzia weren't looking at ED short term and then noticing them as "**** play" because we can claim it was a lie, however Fratzia were well within their rights to notice ED regardless of what they said just as ED were well within their rights to find another war whether this was done before or after notice expired.
The long and the short of the situation is ED knew they would get farmed by Fratzia so took the easy way out by finding a war, you can call it cowardly if you like however there is nothing morally or mechanically wrong with this. What AMA and Fratzia are trying to claim is if you're noticed then you've got to sit there and accept the wave or be forced into negotiating some BS terms and those are the only options, with the caveat that this all has to be done within a certain time frame.
Who the f**k is Elit or Fratzia to be self appointed directors of what is and isn't cheating/s**tplay especially when so much of it skirts around semantics and peoples own opinions, even Elit and Fratzia can't agree in that Elit claims it would have been fine to run as long as Fratzia hadn't trained while Fratzia just wanted the land regardless.
So much of this game is built around public opinion as the devs have a very hands off approach, war might not be sacrosanct within game mechanics but the overwhelming majority of the players would agree that it is in principle. Losing your target doesn't have that same privilege, you don't have a divine right to a KD sitting there and waiting for you to wave them after 48 hours. The only people who I see supporting AMA/Fraztias opinion are their own leadership/players, people who are mostly ignoring any facts or even whats happening and just posting anti-ED crap so it's safe to assume are bias and people trolling on new accounts.
Fratzias moronic self entitlement could be more palatable if they weren't playing the game with the "moral code" that all top KDs have, that they can run trash def and farm out players in smaller KDs while hiding behind CFs from any threats for 9 weeks. The fact that anyone in top KDs believes they can talk about moral actions towards others when they spend the whole game finding ways to screw over the majority of players and protect their own asses is precious.
You're overcomplicating things. A war in which one kingdom massively explores banks prior to it always has and will be a fake war. Fake wars are 100% hittable into this day and age.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
People can dodge, or People can explore and get hit. People can't do both. ED's leadership was told this by many people, they went ahead and did it anyways, and they got hit just like they were told they would be.
Take your point about exploring and then using war to hide in and stay safe however that's not exactly what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
ED had CFs in place and spoke to Fratzia about the situation, Parth was lead to believe that ED would have no issue with Fratzia so explored and were then noticed. Your definition of a fake war and the situation is different once again to all the others given by top KDs, you're saying that dodging is fine while others say it's not fine or it's fine if it'd been done 24 hours before, there is zero consistency between top players and you're all just making up the rules of what is and isn't allowed from your own opinion.
If the #1 KD had a bank the #2 KD could hit but the #3 KD couldn't hit. Both KD #2 and #3 serve notice to #1 at the same time and they chose to war #3 because they know their bank can be explored and is safe then you're basically saying this is a fake war because KD #1 knows they are going to gain a larger and safe bank from this war.
Even if this is a case of "utopia policing" then why are AMA getting screwed through getting no land and Fratzia allowed to keep all the acres they gained rather than them being razed off? Once again, zero consistency and people just doing what suits them.
bla bla bla... you messed up and did something stupid. own up.
This is the crux of it. Holds true for you too, which makes me wonder why you try to argue that your position is inherently the correct one to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
From an outsider's perspective, seems like this was the sequence of events
1. ED was told by Fratzia that they weren't going to be targeted, so they explored up
2. Fratzia notices ED
3. ED wars Pyro 1 hour before notice ends
4. Fratzia hits into the war
In doing "what suits them," both sides seem like they screwed up somehow
1-2. ED assuming that someone's word was good enough without inking out an agreement, and Fratzia misleading them
3-4. ED "dodging," and making Fratzia train up before going to war, and Fratzia reacting accordingly, justifiably or unjustifiably
Seems like people just obfuscate the issue unnecessarily with all this talk about "**** play" and right and wrong. For once it'd be nice to see a KD own up to it and say "we do whatever benefits us," because that's pretty much what happens in these situations.