AMA Mean Bullies vs. Sad Jerks Age 62 - ROUND TWO??!!

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22-08-2014, 19:24
Elit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

SWEA didnt exploit anything with Elit/Ama besides his good will and that he sticks to his principles, if it was any other douchebag kd we would have lost that age.

Thanks for admit im stay to my principles. Its what matter for me.

Palem you can have your view but don't mean its correct. Lead kd is complicated job and i think im doing it good. Last age was age on deals and boring pump. This age is age on aggressive play for us. We declared war on pew pew when we had 0 chances for win just for try our chances and show rest kds you don't need to intra kd raze/reset just because you cant win 1 war. We gave 2 times Jerks extend this age for prepare and war us, same how we did last age with RBL, and we did it in past ages with different kds. I didn't have any grudge vs Jerks and planed to CF them for free after war end if they did his WD min time. War was good for us and had no reason to go after them again. I did same 3 ages ago vs HoH and ITS COST US CROWN. If i did b2b war them we will have won land but i gave respect HoH for war us from disadvantage position. Problem is what did Jerks with his max gains wave turned to not good result for us and after they refuse deal we had no other option from go round 2. Now we are doing what is best for us and Jerks is suffer because didn't do what is best for them but think how only to hurt us. Its how grudges start and after it im keep them for long.
22-08-2014, 19:38
Palem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

Stop being so childish, there is to established systems approved. :(

and I'm the delusional one lol
Who approved it? I need a good laugh. Is Syntico the end-all be-all of who gets to decide what is and is not a crown? lol

If you don't win land+nw, you didn't crown. You only have to beat like 3-4 kds anymore. If you can't pull off those 2 then you don't deserve the distinction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elit

Now we are doing what is best for us

And I disagree. I've already explained why.
22-08-2014, 19:47
goodz

I agree that AMA did what was best for AMA :)

Only dumb thing they did was complain about a max gain wave.
22-08-2014, 19:57
Elit

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodz

I agree that AMA did what was best for AMA :)

Only dumb thing they did was complain about a max gain wave.

We explained not complained :P
Im sure your English is good enough for know difference :D
22-08-2014, 20:13
Korp

Quote:

and I'm the delusional one lol
Who approved it? I need a good laugh. Is Syntico the end-all be-all of who gets to decide what is and is not a crown? lol

If you don't win land+nw, you didn't crown. You only have to beat like 3-4 kds anymore. If you can't pull off those 2 then you don't deserve the distinction.

Yes Syntico is all master. No, but a crown essentially a win and AMA did win, you just refuse to take that into account cause that would "ruin" your "Argument" so you stick to the silly Absalom metric system and cling to it so badly.
22-08-2014, 20:26
Anri

Quote:

Originally Posted by clawz

I have played with Elit for a few ages. I can vouch that Elit bears his grudges and if you piss him off, he makes sure your kd suffers at any cost.

sounds like a very scary guy, everyone is scared of him now
22-08-2014, 20:28
Anri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elit

We explained not complained :P
Im sure your English is good enough for know difference :D

I dont get it
22-08-2014, 20:31
Cello

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

Yes Syntico is all master. No, but a crown essentially a win and AMA did win, you just refuse to take that into account cause that would "ruin" your "Argument" so you stick to the silly Absalom metric system and cling to it so badly.

Actually the absalometric rule would consider our NW win a crown. The Syntico standard would only accept it as half a one.

Elit 1 - 0 goodz, btw. I laughed out loud at that one :D
22-08-2014, 20:34
Band of Horses

Quote:

Originally Posted by clawz

I have played with Elit for a few ages. I can vouch that Elit bears his grudges and if you piss him off, he makes sure your kd suffers at any cost.

He stole that from his time with Coss, and every KD is willing to end their age to end AMA's because that is a better story than winning a crown at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anri

sounds like a very scary guy, everyone is scared of him now

I wish I could up vote this, very funny Anri.
22-08-2014, 20:37
Band of Horses

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cello

Actually the absalometric rule would consider our NW win a crown. The Syntico standard would only accept it as half a one.

Elit 1 - 0 goodz, btw. I laughed out loud at that one :D

Actually Syntico ruled in favor of Land and NW each being one crown. It was in that thread Realest started like a year ago. I think reasoning was that Land/NW are likely to be won together and thus leveling the fact that Honor crown is worth the same as a single one of those.
22-08-2014, 20:46
Palem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

No, but a crown essentially a win and AMA did win, you just refuse to take that into account cause that would "ruin" your "Argument" so you stick to the silly Absalom metric system and cling to it so badly.

I've already explained what I think a crown is and why. Thanks for explaining my own made up reasons to me though.
22-08-2014, 21:02
Band of Horses

Quote:

Originally Posted by Band of Horses

Actually Syntico ruled in favor of Land and NW each being one crown. It was in that thread Realest started like a year ago. I think reasoning was that Land/NW are likely to be won together and thus leveling the fact that Honor crown is worth the same as a single one of those.

BoH, you can't prove this and might have just made it up. Do you make up half the things you say or all of them?
22-08-2014, 22:38
StratOcastle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

Stop being so childish, there is to established systems approved. :(

Well, look what happend when flogger left BB they won.. :P

No offense to the honorable flogger, but to my mind it was Remote effect that helped BB crown. Knowing flogger is lurking in the depths would prevent a nonchalant approach to exploring if you weren't on BBs side. That and BB is an excellent kingdom with solid focus age to age.
22-08-2014, 22:40
Cello

Quote:

Originally Posted by Band of Horses

BoH, you can't prove this and might have just made it up. Do you make up half the things you say or all of them?

I actually have the original Syntico's crown list, aka "The Crown Winners List". An excerpt from the thread:

The rules:

Quote:

- "Crowns" are normal Crowns. Kingdom Networth & Land (0.5+0.5=1), Kingdom Honor (1), Province Networth & Land (0.5+0.5=1), Province Honor (1) all count as one each. A Triple Crown i.e. Networth, Land & Honor (0.5+0.5+1+1=3) would amount to three Crowns (one extra for the feat).
- "Absalometric Crowns" are what we refer to as split Crowns or shared Crowns. It is a practice more commonly found among weaker and especially Absalom Kingdoms. Under the Absalometric system, Networth, Land and Honor are separated into one Crown each (i.e. 1+1+1 instead of 0.5+0.5+1). Absalometric Crowns is a variation of the term "Crowns" offered by AquaSeaFoam in his proposition that he had more Crowns than Phiwha's 10 (in 2010). It was later ascertained that AquaSeaFoam had distinguished Networth and Land Crowns in his calculation (he also included Race and Island Crowns in his total, which I have disregarded in my interpretation). There is currently no concept of a Triple Crown under the system because Absalom could never imagine it possible.
- "Best Result" is available as an indication to us that it is not due to a lack of trying that these players remain Crown Virgins, but rather a combination of inadequate utilization of skill, bad luck and poor choices that led to their current predicament.

And the #3, Elit (behind Phiwha/Mango and MacLean):

Quote:

3. Elit of We are the darkness – 10 Crowns, 16 Absalometric Crowns
Age 19: Won 1st Crown (Province Honor) with Via Nocturna as "Night Hunter BG" on World of Legends
Age 21: Won 2nd Crown (Province Honor) with Via Nocturna as "Days of Revenge" on World of Legends
Age 22: Won 3rd Crown (Province Honor) with Via Nocturna as "Night WAR" on World of Legends
Age 31: Won 3rd & ? Crown (Province Land ONLY) with Via Nocturna as "Mars Solar System" on World of Legends
Age 37: Won 4th & ? Crown (Kingdom Honor) with Seasons as "Cast and destroy" on World of Legends
Age 38: Won 5th Crown (Province Land ONLY) with Seasons as "Alien vs Orc" on World of Legends
Age 39: Won 6th Crown (Kingdom Networth & Land) with Seasons as "Jet Li" on World of Legends
Age 41 Won 7th Crown (Kingdom Networth & Land) with Seasons as "James Bond" on World of Legends
Age 41 Won 8th Crown (Province Networth & Land) with Seasons as "James Bond" on World of Legends
Age 50: Won 9th Crown (Kingdom Networth & Land) with Dreams as "The Bank Always Wins" on World of Legends
Age 50: Won 10th Crown (Province Networth & Land) with Dreams as "The Bank Always Wins" on World of Legends

As you can see Syntico was in favour of pure crowns, rather than 1/2 crowns or absalometric crowns. So you are, in fact, wrong, BoH ;)
22-08-2014, 23:07
AquaSeaFoam

Some opinions:

1) #1 NW is a crown, but it's not "winning the age". The triple crown is winning the land, nw, and honor charts and represents winning all three crowns. Winning any one of these charts is a crown, but land is the most important chart.

2) The game mechanics are currently flawed resulting in "bullying" being overpowered. In the past with what was probably the longest running relations system, when the meters maxed, no one got the button. This allowed a defending kingdom to avoid war but still fight back to a greater extent although the aggressor kingdom could still do last minute waves before the day change to get some "free hits" in. The meter was 200 points during this time and there was no war win bonus. Now, when the meters are maxed both kingdoms get the button. On top of this, the meters have been reduced to 150 points. On top of this, the winning kingdom gets a war win bonus that is very significant in the top competition. This combination essentially means that a weaker kingdom cannot avoid war without being farmed and that the aggressor kingdom will either completely farm the weaker kingdom out of war or get war and farm them in war plus get a huge war win bonus. The flawed mechanics strongly promotes bullying.

The only disadvantage to bullying is that farming a kingdom in hostile/war still takes time and can limit pool use potentially resulting in pool decay. That's why it's even better to just skip the fighting part by pointing out the inevitable outcome due to the flawed mechanics and just asking for a bunch of free land up front. If a kingdom fights back effectively, they'll still be beat down to nothing in the fight, but they can potentially slow the aggressors gains enough that they might lack somewhat relative to their competition who is busy pumping and exploring. If the weaker kingdom is strong and good enough to do this, then the demand for free acres under threat of taking them by force becomes a bit of a bluff. The aggressor would prefer to just get them free and it might not even be worth it for them to take them by force, but if their bluff is called, they need to back it up so as to set an example. They need to prove that when they bully a kingdom, that kingdom better give them the free land or they will indeed destroy the other kingdom through force.

This is exactly what AMA is doing. The whole thing about a max gain wave has nothing to do with it being dishonorable. Everyone knows it isn't. The reality is that AMA didn't gain as much as they hoped the first war and saw that Jerks still had enough acres left after the war for AMA to judge it worth their effort and bad karma to demand more free acres or take them by force. It looks like Cello thought that if he tried to place the blame for this decision back on Jerks themselves for "max gaining" that it might be easier for Jerks to accept as their own fault and therefore give up the land freely. Regardless, this decision was about game mechanics along with consideration for possible political ramifications and their current situation with regards to other game relations.

Personally, I think that bullying weaker kingdoms for their acres and war win bonuses with very little real way for those kingdoms to defend themselves is not good for the game and the mechanics should be fixed. On the positive side, it seems that most other top kingdoms have not been abusing this mechanics flaw to bully too badly so far, but maybe I just haven't noticed since I only recently returned to the game. With any fix, care should be taken so as to not overpower smaller aggressors to the point where it is the larger kingdom with no way to defend themselves.

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