Age 68 preliminary changes

Here are two graphs to show why halfers are still viable with the new proposed changes. For the first graph you can see that the combined number of stat points they get for their units are good. (assuming the use of off. specs for halfers and def.specs for elves.)

Winnuz, I believe I understand what you are saying, but it is possible I do not. Are you asserting that even though halflings will have less defense (w/ respect to say an orcs offense), that their nw is scaled accordingly so that the decreased defense is mitigated by the networth? (i.e. they may be weaker but attackers of comparable size will have worse gains when attacking a halfer). If not I apologize for misinterpreting those graphs.

I may be looking at this incorrectly (I prolly am) but it still seems that halfer stats (and elf stats) did not increase (% wise) as much as orc with horses (or undead with horses). If i am running 90-100 dpa now it seems i will be able to run about 135-150 dpa next age (about 50% more). However, orcs appear to be able to have 75% more opa (if you factor in horses).

It seems that I may be simplifying this a bit because I am only arguing mod points and not gains due to networth. And i am not arguing for UB halflings either. I am just trying to understand while illustrating that the numbers may not be scaled correctly for the classes. =)

Halflings will be the only viable tms next age for any kingdoms trying to fit 7 or more wars in. Why is simple they can get beat up and recover after every war. Elf or fay cannot and before you talk about tog I will remind you being chained makes tog useless. Because there won't be unbreakables, so you go to the tms that everything is cheap.

Give mystics mirror image so when the rogues are doing their evil little AW runs, they are killing shadows as well as actual wizards. AW is way too strong, especially against Elves and Halfers who do not have Clearsight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uncle Ed

Give mystics mirror image so when the rogues are doing their evil little AW runs, they are killing shadows as well as actual wizards. AW is way too strong, especially against Elves and Halfers who do not have Clearsight.

---

As I wrote in a diffrent thread, my suggestion is to:

Give +30% Spell Succes to Elves and add Clear Sight to their spellbook.

An Elf/Heretic with the above bonus would be a really cool option compared to the standard Faery/Mystic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gollum36

Here are two graphs to show why halfers are still viable with the new proposed changes. For the first graph you can see that the combined number of stat points they get for their units are good. (assuming the use of off. specs for halfers and def.specs for elves.)

Winuz, I believe I understand what you are saying, but it is possible I do not. Are you asserting that even though halflings will have less defense (w/ respect to say an orcs offense), that their nw is scaled accordingly so that the decreased defense is mitigated by the networth? (i.e. they may be weaker but attackers of comparable size will have worse gains when attacking a halfer). If not I apologize for misinterpreting those graphs.

I may be looking at this incorrectly (I prolly am) but it still seems that halfer stats (and elf stats) did not increase (% wise) as much as orc with horses (or undead with horses). If i am running 90-100 dpa now it seems i will be able to run about 135-150 dpa next age (about 50% more). However, orcs appear to be able to have 75% more opa (if you factor in horses).

It seems that I may be simplifying this a bit because I am only arguing mod points and not gains due to networth. And i am not arguing for UB halflings either. I am just trying to understand while illustrating that the numbers may not be scaled correctly for the classes. =)

---

You are correct in that their stat points are scaled accordingly so that the decreased defense is mitigated by the networth. So from that aspect of the game they are scaled fairly well. The same applies for elves.

But this is mostly from a theoretical point of view. In reality you are not able to utilize all those stat points as well as the other races (or you can at least say that it is a lot harder.) and this is where the not being UB/Having crazy opa part comes in.

This analysis is only based on the raw numbers and if you also add their cheap elites into this equation I think that they are scaled well.

Race----------------------------------Avian-----Dwarf-----Elf-----Faery-----Halfling-----Human-----Orc-----Undead
Price per point per nw per elite----529-------571--------490----750-------354----------534--------600-----679

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bishop

It's is important that people play, yes. How much do you think people log in during eowcf. I will tell you. Average 2.5 times. Once a day in fort. That is not good.

---

... thats bad very bad. People should at least log in 2 times per DAY, not 2 times in 4 days..........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azureflames

Even with a full econ build with tons of homes it takes time to draft deep and stockpile gold. If we don't play like this and the other kingdom does we are at a severe disadvantage from the start.

---

Who says anyone has the undeniable right to stockpile gold with no risk to it?

Who says anyone has the undeniable right to draft deep without resistance?

Who says you're supposed to be even with every kingdom you want to fight or who wants to fight you?

Find kingdoms that look like yours does. If you can't stockpile gold, look for opponents who also do not have stockpiled gold. Offer ceasefires to opponents who don't look like an even fight or fight them anyways and take on the challenge. Everyone wants to pump pump pump or they just give up, which if you apply it to reality scenarios, is a ridiculous expectation. The common slogan "Perfect or Bust" is absurd and needs to be pushed out of Utopia.

None of these things are grand mysteries of the game, they're just buried under complacency and laziness. Dig a little, you'll find them.

(12+1)x 1.5= 19.5 offense per orc elite if they can get to 150 ome....20% gains 25% casualties free draft clearsight and 292 opa potential....orc or undead will be the only way to go for an attacker who knows what they are doing.

these changes will only favor the people who know how the mechanics work. Theres no way you guys will think of every bug or mechanic that is altered by these changes and you can be sure people will manipulate or exploit anything possible. People are going to get farmed hard and have a ***** of time rebuilding and all your doing will be separating the tiers even more. Ghettos will stay ghettos because they don't know enough about strategy to succeed in an even more offensive based game....

Maybe you could explain to the people why you felt these changes were necessarry...maybe you could start implementing pools throughout the ages to feel out peoples opinions on what you guys are thinking....I just dont see the necessity for the large shakeup in offense numbers when you could just add new races and personalities

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verminator

Find kingdoms that look like yours does. If you can't stockpile gold, look for opponents who also do not have stockpiled gold. Offer ceasefires to opponents who don't look like an even fight or fight them anyways and take on the challenge. Everyone wants to pump pump pump or they just give up, which if you apply it to reality scenarios, is a ridiculous expectation. The common slogan "Perfect or Bust" is absurd and needs to be pushed out of Utopia.

---

Kingdoms that looked like us didn't want to war, there weren't that many kingdoms to choose from anyway. Kingdoms that had a large advantage wanted to war us. Eventually we grew and warred Spartans, who had more than double our science and +1-2rwpa on their attackers.

Hi all,

Overall, great shift/changes Bishop an co. I like the drastic changes, it makes for players having to adapt quickly.

Old timers comments and suggestions:

Races
Avian
-25% Attack travel time
Cannot be ambushed
+1 General

Elite: 9/3, 725gc, 8.75 NW
Spellbook: Fanaticism, Greater Protection

**Must be given a buff, and I suggest they get CS (since they can fly)?

Dwarf
Free Building Construction and Can Use Credits To Raze Buildings
-50% Building Construction Time
-50% food consumption

Can’t use Accelerated Construction

Spellbook: Mystic Aura, Pitfalls
Elite: 7/7, 800gc, 10NW

**Slight buff required, I would give them QF and ToG but also increasse the elite cost by 100gc to 900gc

Elf
+1 defensive specialist strength
-30% defensive losses
+100% land effect from Towers

Spellbook: Pitfalls, Invisibility, Fools Gold
Elite: 7/6, 750gc, 8.5NW

**Slight change to 8/5 elite. As they are, you are really stuck as pure mage with basically all spec def.

Faery

+ 20% Combat Instant Spell Damage
+ 20% Sabotage Operation Damage
+ 20% Spell Duration
+1 mana per tick in war
+1 stealth per tick

Spellbook: All racial spells and Tree of Gold
Elite: 6/8, 1000gc, 10.5NW

*No change

Halfling
+50% Thievery Operation Success (TPA)
-50% thief cost
+10% population
+1 offensive specialist strength

Spellbook: Aggression, Mages Fury
Soldiers 3/3 Elite: 6/6, 500gc, 8.5NW

*No change

Human
+ 30% income
Immune to Income Penalties

-20% Spell Success

Spellbook: Fountain of Knowledge, Quick Feet
Elite: 9/4, 750gc, 9.25NW

**Remove QF but give them a science bonus of some sort, perhaps something special when humans build schools?

Orc
+20% Battle Gains
Free draft
+25% Enemy casualties when attacking

-10% science effectiveness

Spellbook: Reflect Magic, Clear Sight
Elite: 12/2, 800gc, 10.5NW

**pretty strong as is, I'd remove CS and give them instead constant IA (therefore no need to cast)

Undead
-75% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
No Food Required

Basic Thievery (Intel operations only)

Spellbook: Town Watch, Animate Dead
Elite: 11/3, 950gc, 10NW

**I'd slightly buff Chastity

No comments on personalities other then, perhaps buffing warrior from 15% to 20%

On mechanics, i leave that stuff to people like Zauper! <3 Overall, I'd like to see the ability to kill people made much easier. For now, you chain and they rebound on 0 def. You shouldn't be able to maintain that much offense when you've lost 70% of your land. I'd also love to see NS/nadoes and Droughts strengthened. Again, make damage ops hurt more thus making those few t/m's per kd that much more powerful.

P.S. I'm only slight active these days so go easy on me ;p

I just think that since Mystics are so dependent on their Wizards they should be able to protect them more. I mean right now they have to go 30% WT's and going against a kingdom with a few Rogues, they get to watch their WT's get burned down and watch their WPA drop like a rock. Without the double bonus to training wizards back in EOWCF, and without the 4 days to run 70% guilds, they will have a tough time maintaining a high WPA. Sure, Faeries have Clearsight, but what if you want to go another race as Mystic? Some people have said to nerf AW, but I don't like that. I think Mystics getting "Mirror Image" would be perfect. The rogues will still kill the same number of wizards, but 75% of them would be mirror images. Without something like that, Faery is the only viable race to play Mystic next age, especially since Elves are losing the WPA bonus.

Personally, I don't mind. Since I play attacker I have always hated Mystics. So many wars I have lost due to UB Mystics that sit back with their high defense and get stupid honor from casting their spells. If Bishop is trying to nerf the power of the Mystics, then I say thank you. Too many ages have been ruled by the wand and not the blade. If nothing is done to help the Mystics I will be happy, and look forward to my Orcs crushing the Faeries while my Rogues decimate any other Mystics. "Age of the Blade" Let's do this!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uncle Ed

I just think that since Mystics are so dependent on their Wizards they should be able to protect them more. I mean right now they have to go 30% WT's and going against a kingdom with a few Rogues, they get to watch their WT's get burned down and watch their WPA drop like a rock. Without the double bonus to training wizards back in EOWCF, and without the 4 days to run 70% guilds, they will have a tough time maintaining a high WPA. Sure, Faeries have Clearsight, but what if you want to go another race as Mystic? Some people have said to nerf AW, but I don't like that. I think Mystics getting "Mirror Image" would be perfect. The rogues will still kill the same number of wizards, but 75% of them would be mirror images. Without something like that, Faery is the only viable race to play Mystic next age, especially since Elves are losing the WPA bonus.

Personally, I don't mind. Since I play attacker I have always hated Mystics. So many wars I have lost due to UB Mystics that sit back with their high defense and get stupid honor from casting their spells. If Bishop is trying to nerf the power of the Mystics, then I say thank you. Too many ages have been ruled by the wand and not the blade. If nothing is done to help the Mystics I will be happy, and look forward to my Orcs crushing the Faeries while my Rogues decimate any other Mystics. "Age of the Blade" Let's do this!!

---

Or instead of making up a news spell and to keep things easy just give them CS so it's harder to hurt thier wizzies.

The issue with this new boost to off values, particularly on orc, and people going nuts about how big offenses will be, is that it's ignoring defenses.

So....
Generally speaking, attackers want to avoid getting 4xed without being opped -- if you can be easily 4xed without ops, their t/ms can focus on other things, like going after your t/ms. And their hybrids can keep significantly more defense while hitting. My sims show orcs running about 200 OPA and 50 DPA. The most likely outcome, frankly, is that in war we'll see attackers running higher defenses.

If I see any pure T/M's in an enemy kingdom next age, they will be the first chain targets... all the way down to 200 acres where they can't be effective whatsoever. Pure t/m's will be completely breakable, so everyone next age will need SOME sort of attacking capability. As the changes stand, pure t/m's will be easy targets out of war, and mandatory targets in war because achieving UB status against like-sized orcs and undead will not be possible. Taking away the ability to be UB effectively takes out the ability to be a pure T/M because if they cannot defend their acres, why not take them? Free acres they can't attack back for and at the same time they are no longer t/m threats.

These changes force kingdoms to use more pure attackers with a lot of hybrids, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Just don't think you can get away with pure T/M's anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goodgame

If I see any pure T/M's in an enemy kingdom next age, they will be the first chain targets... all the way down to 200 acres where they can't be effective whatsoever. Pure t/m's will be completely breakable, so everyone next age will need SOME sort of attacking capability. As the changes stand, pure t/m's will be easy targets out of war, and mandatory targets in war because achieving UB status against like-sized orcs and undead will not be possible. Taking away the ability to be UB effectively takes out the ability to be a pure T/M because if they cannot defend their acres, why not take them? Free acres they can't attack back for and at the same time they are no longer t/m threats.

These changes force kingdoms to use more pure attackers with a lot of hybrids, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Just don't think you can get away with pure T/M's anymore.

---

Conversely, with the same sci as the orc, I can get a fae to 250 DPA.

For the orc to run 250 OPA means running ~35 dpa. Fae can retal that and leave 190 DPA. Plus the kds own attackers can easily quad that. Seems ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goodgame

If I see any pure T/M's in an enemy kingdom next age, they will be the first chain targets... all the way down to 200 acres where they can't be effective whatsoever. Pure t/m's will be completely breakable, so everyone next age will need SOME sort of attacking capability. As the changes stand, pure t/m's will be easy targets out of war, and mandatory targets in war because achieving UB status against like-sized orcs and undead will not be possible. Taking away the ability to be UB effectively takes out the ability to be a pure T/M because if they cannot defend their acres, why not take them? Free acres they can't attack back for and at the same time they are no longer t/m threats.

These changes force kingdoms to use more pure attackers with a lot of hybrids, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Just don't think you can get away with pure T/M's anymore.

---

I would expect kingdoms to just run larger T/Ms in relation to their core size.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pillz

I would expect kingdoms to just run larger T/Ms in relation to their core size.

---

Or they just accept that their t/m can be hit, as always, and secure them after the first wave(s). If you run 8 t/m, you can afford to have some hit down -- and they can't even really be chained if they run high def and hospitals/gs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zauper

Conversely, with the same sci as the orc, I can get a fae to 250 DPA.

---

No you can't, not with an 8 elite vs a 14 elite (horsies). At least not functionally because that leaves you with no room for peon econ, wpa, or tpa. If you had that much defense then u suck as a T/M in other aspects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pillz

I would expect kingdoms to just run larger T/Ms in relation to their core size.

---

Also, it sounds like you plan on doing a lot of pumping next age where pumping will be much less possible with the shortened fort and eowcf periods. Perhaps your strat will work in the 3 wars you can fit in though.

In regards to running hospitals and GS on your faeries, at least you are so afraid of the orcs that you take away from TD, WT, and homes, so again ur T/M prov is suboptimal. It will be my pleasure to go up against kingdoms that T/M heavy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goodgame

No you can't, not with an 8 elite vs a 14 elite (horsies). At least not functionally because that leaves you with no room for peon econ, wpa, or tpa. If you had that much defense then u suck as a T/M in other aspects.


Also, it sounds like you plan on doing a lot of pumping next age where pumping will be much less possible with the shortened fort and eowcf periods. Perhaps your strat will work in the 3 wars you can fit in though.

In regards to running hospitals and GS on your faeries, at least you are so afraid of the orcs that you take away from TD, WT, and homes, so again ur T/M prov is suboptimal. It will be my pleasure to go up against kingdoms that T/M heavy.

---

shrug, k. There's a reason why the FS setup wins wars. And these changes don't change that.

Add a cooperative spell "Disrupt Stance" that consumes the entire kingdom's mana but puts the enemy in Normal. HA HA HA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bishop

It's is important that people play, yes. How much do you think people log in during eowcf. I will tell you. Average 2.5 times. Once a day in fort. That is not good.

---

I agree once a day in fort is a problem, and I support addressing that by dropping fort duration, time between stances, etc.

However, I don't think you can look at 2.5 times in EOWCF alone. Look at the whole picture - War + EOWCF. What's the average logins over that period? Part of the reason for the 2.5 times login over the EOWCF is precisely what folks have posted in this thread -- they use EOWCF as a cool down period after intense login frequency during war. If you look at War + EOWCF and that's still average 2.5 times/4 days, that would be a problem.

Quote:

---

However, I don't think you can look at 2.5 times in EOWCF alone. Look at the whole picture - War + EOWCF. What's the average logins over that period? Part of the reason for the 2.5 times login over the EOWCF is precisely what folks have posted in this thread -- they use EOWCF as a cool down period after intense login frequency during war. If you look at War + EOWCF and that's still average 2.5 times/4 days, that would be a problem.

---

Agreed. Data also shows that people who leave the game rarely login if ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zauper

shrug, k. There's a reason why the FS setup wins wars. And these changes don't change that.

---

This a weaker def t/m just means running 10-15+ of them. As you lose a few have the chained ones NS/Prop/LL and hit zero def targets. who cares if i lose 6-8 t/m's per war if i still have 4-7 of them and the enemy only ever started with 4-5. Given enough time you cant bring down every t/m while attackers offense falls. Small t/m's become unbrekable, while the chained ones NS attackers that ended up on <1 tpa due to overpopulation. Kds with lots of t/m's also have chains survive better because they had more targets to max gain on, and when the enemy chains a t/m's that t/m's holds decent tpa which turns into mass NS on a target that lost theives to overpop and lost WT due to in progress buildings So the kd with the chained t/m's actually has the potential that they go UB late war AND has chains that sustain better.


If you want t/m's to be "weaker" lowering their def doesnt help that much as ops are still more damaging than attacking in general. I.e. when MS can do Meteors rain across the lands and kill 363 peasants, 125 soldiers, 2,205 Archers and 727 Knights! the game makes it that a "sit and stall while ops do damage" as one of the best ways to win. A Few FB's and some MS and its just a matter of time till people shell out. Its not like u can easily come up with >1 million gc/tick to retrain when in war/hostile unless you can easily hold onto peasents (and then how did they land MS to begin with)

If you want them to actually be weaker without hitting the damage theifs and wizzards do (so hybrids are viable) you gotta go with takeing them down->out of a fight a bit easier relative to attackers than currently exists. Something like overpop being calculated ALWAYS on land+acres you gained via attacks could make t/m's less viable as they drop faster than normal attackers. Also makes hybrids more viable as hybrids attack. Otherwise its just a matter of balancing how many t/m's i have v my enemy. Hint if equally skilled and pumped more t/m's=better chance to win IN war.

All the races are playable and can compete, except for maybe Human. Humans can pump, that's about it. Human Sage will be what it usually is and should be, master of science. Eventually, they can sci pump out of the -20% wpa and still stay ahead in rest, but until then, they are a big liability and just not worth it. I suggest making the -20% Spell Success offensive only as it implies. edit: seems actually they could counter the -20% oop. Still, that's kinda mean.

Again people, the fact that an Orc can hit a Faery at will doesn't mean they are going to. One hit a T/M and you will find yourself being chain bait as you don't have enough land coming in, especially as easy as it is for a Faery to ambush that Orc. You can chain a T/M easier, but it's risk vs reward. It's not who can hit who, it's how many times you can hit them. I'll give up a Faery to take out 3 Orcs. When talking T/M defense you have to compare it against your attacker's defense. If T/M defense is 3 times attacker's then 1 attack on a T/M costs 3 attacks on an Orc. T/Ms are still bad ass, but if you try to be too bad ass, we got somethin for ya.

Wilmington humans don't have -20% next age. They have +20% fail on spells. And there is a lot I disagree with what you have posted but I wont' get into it. I will say this while I think orc is a very strong attacker next age, I won't be playing an orc attacker.

Why are we still going on about the Orc vs Faery debate?

If you are a 20* orc and a 5* faery kingdom warring a 20* orc and 5* faery kingdom I am sure both sides are happy to forgo a couple of orcs for hitting the largest faery in the kingdom multiple times, someone is going to get chained anyways.

This whole "if an orc hits a faery he will be chained" is kind of irrelevant because it is going to happen regardless of who the orc hits. It is either 1* on the faery or 4* on an orc so the defence of the person hitting out will be the same anyways.

TMS were never meant to grow and sit 20% above the median and be safe during war. I suspect the bump in attacker offence is to counter kingdoms that just explore a TM to be UB and op/aid whenever they like; I don't think having provinces like that is advancing the game at all.

I don't mind the shorter EOWCF and with the timer being suspended if you manage your stances properly you can get an extra 48 hours in fort after EOWCF anyways. The only things I would be concerned with about the shorter EOWCF times is the duration spells like plague etc and losing the extra wizards.

If you take away the 2.5 wizzies in EOWCF can we at least nerf AW a little. Wizzies are the hardest troop in the game to train and one war with an active and co-ordinated kingdom can set mages back weeks and will make it hard to war 7-8 times an age like what you are trying to achieve with the changes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maccar86

If you take away the 2.5 wizzies in EOWCF can we at least nerf AW a little. Wizzies are the hardest troop in the game to train and one war with an active and co-ordinated kingdom can set mages back weeks and will make it hard to war 7-8 times an age like what you are trying to achieve with the changes.

---

People warred fine without increased wizard production in EOWCF. This has literally been the first age with double wizard production...

I am against suggestions that drops the Elven elites defense lower than 6. They are not supposed to be a pure attacker, that is never their role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pillz

People warred fine without increased wizard production in EOWCF. This has literally been the first age with double wizard production...

---

True but more people are aware of how brutal aw can be than ever before. That's going to mean more kds making a point of doing it next age

agree with Persain. our rogue strat this age was based on that principle. I kept them mostly just below core size but since I had 6 and they werent UB by a long margin they were mosrly left alone or only 1-2 were chained.

About the races again. I think halfer needs a small buff. Faery has 33% more efficient defense, and off wise it cannot compete with any of the other races (the +10% population does not make up for it). I suggest giving halfers +2 off spec and 4/4 soldiers, and perhaps 1 more spell.

Skip all the races and just go with Dark Elves. All we need really.

Changes look interest and its what need game.

What i don't like is reduced post war time. Main problem about Utopia is incredible much time you need spend compare other games and special if you want to be "good". Only time when Leaders can relax is post war time. Rest time they need to deal nonstop with problems don't matter if its top or ghetto kd. Its same for Kd members just less stressful. So keeping 3-4 days post war is very important not only for recover your province but for people to get vacation from utopia and relax after hell intensive wars. Its very very important if you don't want to burn complete player base.

Why not make wizzie training like thieve. And guilds just affect the bonous to wpa? At same time level the playing ground for mystics to have their version of AW against rogues. That way the mystics r even out, the rogues have someone to counter them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vakyrie

Why not make wizzie training like thieve. And guilds just affect the bonous to wpa? At same time level the playing ground for mystics to have their version of AW against rogues. That way the mystics r even out, the rogues have someone to counter them.

---

I do believe that is what expose thieves and sabotage wizards is for. :)... A very underutilized op and spell in my book...in case one does not know these reduce mana/stealth.(unless of course this has changed since its implementation back only mehul knows long ago lol.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goodgame

If I see any pure T/M's in an enemy kingdom next age, they will be the first chain targets... all the way down to 200 acres where they can't be effective whatsoever. Pure t/m's will be completely breakable, so everyone next age will need SOME sort of attacking capability. As the changes stand, pure t/m's will be easy targets out of war, and mandatory targets in war because achieving UB status against like-sized orcs and undead will not be possible. Taking away the ability to be UB effectively takes out the ability to be a pure T/M because if they cannot defend their acres, why not take them? Free acres they can't attack back for and at the same time they are no longer t/m threats.

These changes force kingdoms to use more pure attackers with a lot of hybrids, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Just don't think you can get away with pure T/M's anymore.

---

See bold/underlined stuff above: this isn't possible this age either, so what's your point?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guardian Wolf

I do believe that is what expose thieves and sabotage wizards is for. :)... A very underutilized op and spell in my book...in case one does not know these reduce mana/stealth.(unless of course this has changed since its implementation back only mehul knows long ago lol.)

---

It requires discipline, not something you'll find in abundance in the warring tier.
The numbers, from the guide:

Expose thieves
Effect: Decreases available stealth of target province to between 66% and 93% of its original amount.

Assume 100% stealth: 5x ET -> down to 20% (min) 76% (max) stealth. Random number generation (25x) has 40% stealth remaining
Assume 70% stealth: 5x ET -> down to 15% (min) 54% (max) stealth. Random number generation (25x) has 29% stealth remaining
Assume 50% stealth: 5x ET -> down to 10% (min) 39% (max) stealth. Random number generation (25x) has 13% stealth remaining

See the power of ET? And it's an "easy" spell to land

I didn't see any changes to thief or wizard networth. With the new changes that is a direct buff to T/M's (comparing relative military strength from 2 provinces at the same NW). along with their 160% Elite defense compared to this age they will actually have the advantage over a "similar sized heavy attacker" next age compared to this age. Orcs will be close, but definitely an advantage compared to the other attackers.

Notice I said compared to this age, as relative changes is what should be considered. T/M's were highly breakable this age too, but if you noticed, they werent all chained to 200 acres every war.

Next age Faery's are actually in a stronger (defensively) place, and actually saw a 200% offense increase to their elite unit, so they have more ability to counter attack with quickfeet and -hours if you time it right, or desire to do so.

3 things I think would need to be addressed are:

+1 off spec strength on halfer: This should be increased to +2
+1 def spec strength on elf: This should be increased to +2
Aggression Spell: Should be increased to +2 soldier attack strength, -2 soldier defense strength

These are just balance changes to keep up with the inflation that the game saw. % spells and perks easily move up with the military inflation, but flat +1, +2 etc things don't always keep up with the inflation changes well.

Quote:

---

I didn't see any changes to thief or wizard networth. With the new changes that is a direct buff to T/M's (comparing relative military strength from 2 provinces at the same NW).

---

In most warring situations this would be considered a nerf. I quite often keep my TMs non-UB but due to inflated NW the enemy barely get gains anyways.

Elf need magical powers and dwarfs @ -50% food consumption should turn into halflings at year 8. Makes sense to me.