Grats on making the game unplayable for everyone outside the top 5 once enough griefers get it in their head to make it so.
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Grats on making the game unplayable for everyone outside the top 5 once enough griefers get it in their head to make it so.
What have we done?Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
It's not what you've done, it's the unbalancing effects razekill into war have on the game the moment enough people decide to wreck the game. Using a broken mechanic to punish someone is what it is; that it is too easy to do so is the problem.
Bottom line is they will not agree to stay out of our wars unless we give in to outrageous demands. IE: 5K acres TO ANOTHER KD, That our Monarch deletes, and some apology that has already been given. Our side has put out a no strings CF. Both are extremes neither will accept. And so far only one attempt to meet in the middle that failed. What are we left with. Ignore it and we have a larger KD to be hitting into our wars. As I said, I am willing to go back to the table, but it will have to be done without Korp, Abi or Pilz.
Page 20Quote:
Originally Posted by Krynn
noobium,
stop being chicken little. OOW raze has been in this game since forever. Honestly, the dumber change was making raze not destroy acres in war. This game used to be a LOT meaner and every change made to make it less mean has been accompanied by a loss of the player base (if not from natural causes). Making the game kinder has not increased the payer base, raze is not broken, stop whining.
noobiums will be noobiums
bump
Repeat. The only reason these attacks continue is that we can not move on to war. Knowing we will be razed into. not fair to our team and not fair to the opponent. If we do not continue attacks it will be leaving an advisory at our backs to grow and continue to be an issue, interfering with the 20+ player in Dungeon Dwellers. There has been no real attempt to let us know this can be put behind us from your Kingdom and all attempts made from DD have been denied. So calling us out as "the one griefing " is a bit disingenuous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanka
@krynn
Don't think you are going to raze them into submission in a browser game, while i think little of their methods, what you are championing here is somewhat the same, just from the perspective of the other side. Literally, you are hitting them oow and limiting their game experience, if they wish to move on they could not, though the thread provides many instances which shows they feel otherwise. Still would prefer if you handle this diplomatically, rather to watch such drama even though i am from the sidelines imo.
Again, I am willing to take this to the table. They do not want anything but to continue this as I have offered alternatives and was told they would talk it over. Waited an hour for a reply only to log into the forum to see that they were unwilling because of posts in here from some one who was not even in the negotiations. They have a case of the ass about us and refuse to deal. The razing is not to "put them into submission" it is to keep an advisory at our back to become an even larger issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanka
raze into war is broken because it creates a huge incentive for outside interference that is not attainable between two kingdoms at war. if raze destroyed a minimum of 15 acres in war it would be less unbalancing, but that doesn't address how easy it is to destroy provinces in war and how destructive war is, allowing a griefer kingdom to sit in fort and quadraze for minimal cost.
with the insane offense levels now, raze functioning as it used to means that no one in their right mind would ever war, since it would guarantee MAD. the last time raze destroyed acres in war, raw offense and defense were roughly even, so it wasn't as absurd.
the simple patch would be to set a floor which can't be razed past, so provinces cannot be outright destroyed by outside interference.
have you considered that people leave because of the asinine behavior that has been a constant presence? or because the game has stagnated and individual skill doesn't count for anything any more? razing as it exists now is definitely broken, and the only thing that keeps the game playable is an agreement that is fragile as ****, because eventually everyone will just use friends and proxies to raze into war if they were playing as non-scrubs.
Aye, i had the impression originally both sides were just dicking out the other for fun. I can see their unwillingness to negotiate as no one has stepped up and outline any means of a compromise, rather than than stick to terms they already your side wont accept and brazenly taunt the fact they can continue indefinitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krynn
The same methods produces the same results, not only do you have to put in effort to coordinate the attacks when all they do is set up a province, you are the side that perpetuates the actual griefing by doing the actual razing leaving them no room for discourse and suffering the actual consequences. In one way your actions might further justify their claim that oow razing is a legimate way to protect smaller kds from 'bullying' tactics from larger ones, even if they harbor the desire to make good on their threats.
They will not change their ways by such means as it had been proven already, not that i can suggest what you should do, which i may have out of line. Just that thing as it is will just further solidify the rationale for the status quo, which imo is just mutually destructive and a way to further shrink the playerbase.
I have to agree with your post as far as this kind of thing is terrible for the game. The real issue here is that so few can create so mush BS for the many. We have 3 to 5 players being unwilling to work out reasonable alternatives wreaking game play for 40 players. It will be a shame to see either KD disappear from the game. Specially after near 50 straight ages under the same name for the Dwellers. The only reason I stay playing Utopia in the first place, that and the friends I have in IRC. There is better Utopia style game out there that I already play in and do very well. I will continue to play until the game ends for the dwellers. But I will no longer invest in the credits or take time to recruit knew players into the server. My efforts on that front will be to direct them into the newer game where this kind of thing has not been able to happen and has other outlets to resolve them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanka
So you dismiss our offer of CF out of hand and yet you expect us to give yours credence. There is a word for that Pillz. It begins with the letter H.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
We've read your offers, and we are currently showing them as much consideration as you have shown ours. Reap what you sow sonny jim :)
I have not seen an "offer" I have only seen demands so outrageous it teeters on insane. I have never seen an offer where one KD gives land to another KD not even involved in the conflict to help them to strengthen their leadership spot on the charts. is that sh*t even legit? Would a self respecting KD even want that kind of thing? Respect to Fire and Blood for their top spot, but if this is the way it was done then it really takes away the achievement. It is nice to see that you have the top spot with actual war wins. Why dirty yourselves with inflated land from a deal like the one put forth. As you have seen here any resolution from this conflict will have to be hammered out with out the present players. As too much has been said and done between Abi, Pillz and Kope. As long as there is no willingness to compromise between them, there will be no resolution. Kind of goes against the spirit of the game being a war/diplomatic environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel038
hmm not that many green provinces left in that kd did you finally decide to raze to 50 acres and keep them there, maybe it could be an idea to set growth as the goal for a few ages, then there would be no wars to raze into.
I still am not qualified to judge who started it and for whatever silly reasons it escalated, but I don't see a threat about razing into other peoples wars as acceptable and would most likely have responded with force too.
You had plenty of opportunity to end this, you guys refused all diplo because "you are big and we are small". You reap what you sow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krynn
Acres are always legit!
Sorry Sir. Size has nothing to do with this. All we want to do is play the game. Keeping you razed is only to keep an advisory down so they can not do damage. Why don't you and I sit down and hold a binding resolution to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
I think one of the first offers were 5 hits. But I guess DD was offended that a ghetto would make such demands.
that one never got the time to be worked out. On the other side, I do have the teams backing to broker a deal. But the deal will be made without the 3 of you attending. If Bishop is willing, we can hammer out a binding deal. As long as the terms are reasonable they will be followed through on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
1) All negotiations between DD and RoO are to be conducted in public in #tactics
2) Krynn will not be involved because last time he pretended to be allowed to negotiate his kingdom turned around and laughed at the idea he could set terms
lol @ again at blank cf even being an offer.
We have all been for reasonable terms, your terms "blank cf" is far from reasonable. You never came with counter term to our offer instead you just started to whine how outrageous they were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krynn
that was sh*t talking and you know it. I have posted in here and will in tactics if agreed to that I do have the backing of the team to Diplo thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
Krynn has been given authorisation and authority to attempt a negotiation with your kingdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
And I feel that this has been in the public eye sufficiently already. And no serious talks will be possible with the interruptions of other parties with an interest in contuing the conflict Be reasonable.
how is it "public" when you went on a banning spree and kicked people because you wanted to be the kid on an ant hill......Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
I can agree with you that only extreme sides have been offered. No excessive land or Deletion and no Blank CF will be considered in this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
freeze this lov.Quote:
Originally Posted by lillylu29
Apology is on the table but you guys are too rejecting that as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krynn
I banned you all for 1 evening. This has been ongoing for something like 7 days.Quote:
how is it "public" when you went on a banning spree and kicked people because you wanted to be the kid on an ant hill......
#tactics or bust.Quote:
And I feel that this has been in the public eye sufficiently already. And no serious talks will be possible with the interruptions of other parties with an interest in contuing the conflict Be reasonable.
I will also order a hold to hits on your kingdom until Krynn returns with your ultimate response.
Then why did your leadership bring it up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Krynn
abi started kicking Steel, maybe you should ask abi.Quote:
Originally Posted by lillylu29
What would you like an apology for Pillz?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
Tactics has too many people popping off. Private room with a number of witnesses TBD. With the understanding that the log could/will be posted.
and we still need an acceptable Diplo from your side.
Not sure Bishop, I may have Missed that. But there has been a lot, in fact way too much Cock Crowing in all of this to even think any of it has any substance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
This +1Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
DD are not the only kingdom the equivalent of Sheister's griefing has happened to. The only reason this has made it to the forums is because the playerz involved used to be good and are well known on the forums, hence they thought they would be starting a Lol Sneer Fest with a lot of support - which hasn't happened.
Don't forget Sheister was invited into this kd of semi inactives and thought that the people he griefed previously were going to walk away - and the kingdom he was invited into may have already been griefing (though that can't be determined as the other kingdom they are getting razed by hasn't posted on here) Then Korp and co were willing to keep the griefing going with DD.
This situation is only exceptional because these are once-talented players who have a forum name attracting attention to it.
Solo players who dont' give a **** about the game, their kingdom or their provinces are a curse to mid range or ghetto kds with aspirations and have been for a while. However I daresay the griefers pretending to be a genuine ghetto are not actually aware of that from their lofty heights of friendship networks.
Maybe I'll start a multi (seeing as Pillz says they are good for the game) and start razing into Sparta's next war, or other top wars just for giggles. Maybe something would be done about it then, in fact you can bet your bottom dollar it will be seen as a genuine problem only when that happens.
You have the wrong approach to it, what you refuse to see Sweetiepie is that DD action had a counter action. As a solo province you have not many options to defend yourself you chose the ones you can use to cause harm. And its pretty naive that you think the top kingdom never have to deal with griefers and annoying ghetto players.
whats a griefer? never heard this word before