Sheister vs Sampuan

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Originally Posted by Tadpole

Sounds like a fun war :)

Though, and I say this without any judgement towards this war (i got no intel, and no opinion), warring is about winning. When the winner is settled, the war should be over. Long wars can be amazingly fun. The challenge and the plethora of short-mid-long term tactics and strategies extends far beyond near min time wars. Complex wars also have a solemn beauty to them, in that they can shift over long time spans. Someone seemingly being up one day, might not be looking so hot after another few.

If a war is lost, however, if it has gone beyond complexity and turned into an unwinnable war, the fun is over. Prolonging wars is fine, but dragging them is severely disrespectful and not the least bit fun. I've seen wars justly lasting for weeks - which is awesome. But wars shouldn't be treated as a playground where the loosing kd holds the winning kd hostage; for whatever reason (spite, alternate vision of fun, experimental playground for new tactics etc). That's a behavior fit for the proper ghetto tier, and shouldn't pollute the competitive war tier.

That said, I do hope FS truly think that they are, and actually is, still in the game and that we get to see them rebound! Who doesn't love a come back in the 12th round? :) FS is also the underdog here, ofc I cheer for them!

And I really hope they're not dragging an unwinnable war on. That'd be bad for the meta in the competitive war-tier, and consequently for the game, and any kingdom doing it should be ashamed.

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How does one judge that? What determines a loss and a win?

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Originally Posted by citadela01

War itself is best one we had since epic slugfest with Divinity, might even top if not for all the drama around it that leaves bad taste in mouth.
Its a shame Pyro refuses to appreciates it and chooses to just fixates at negatives, levels of destruction on both sides is astonishing. I was looking forward to it, and it delivered.

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Its a shame that Pyro refuse to apperciate a supposed good kingdom acting like a total ghetto and refusing to withdraw?

War isn't just the weight of logistics. This is a concept that's hard to convey to those who have peripheral constraints, like acres in a crown chase. It's not that they don't have the knowledge, it's that the priority of land + UB + the clock forces certain upfront strategies that can become futile in long wars.

* To be perfectly honest we need to appreciate the tactics of massacre and raze, who and why. Learns are refueling and serve as arms race leverage in the long game.

Who can gather intel with non-t/ms the longest?

What happened when either side is virtually blind to the others movements?

Who prioritizes the the intel machine?

* Retribution and troop conservation.

Who's troops are best protected?

How can we avoid ambush, retain nw integrity in tpa/wpa?

Which side is in position to make the other pay for not choosing acreage?

~ More stuff but I've got to keep moving ;-) ~

Pyro have been dropping significantly more networth in the last 24 hours (minimal land change).

Perhaps this war isn't over yet. Based on the news thread, Pyro only has 5 UBs, while FS has 8 provs only breakable by the big halfer. Who looks like he's not able to hold onto his troops/peasants very well.

That was yesterday.
Since than FS secured multiple ub's.
Pessie gap and troop gap is shrinking. Also our mia player got removed for inactivity so we are 25 for the first time in this war.

Looks like Pyro has a bunch of shells, Thats some seriously low nwpa on their hitters

What's the dragon situation?

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Originally Posted by Leonidas

What's the dragon situation?

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No dragons.

Fake war. Both kds pumping wizards and science

yes, through massacres..........

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Originally Posted by jwuzi

Fake war. Both kds pumping wizards and science

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:)

Dragon's Behavior

Dragons send range is from 20% smaller to 25% larger in relation to kingdoms networth.

Status on the war:
Im drinking a pepsi max, looking at some bills i have to pay. FML, life is harsh. But still, the Pepsi tastes like nektar so. Let's keep it roling.

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Originally Posted by bombdigie

How does one judge that? What determines a loss and a win?

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Up to the respective kingdoms to judge of course. No other way than subjective judgement. There's no formula available aside from 50% nw @ +7 days, which is not what I'm calling for.

What I'm calling for is for people to give up at the realisation of inevitable loss. Nothing more. Not for set guidelines or a common consensus as to when a win/loss is achieved. Nor an external tribunal to judge. Just for kingdoms to actually surrender in the face of a a situation they themselves judge to be impossible to turn around to a win. And not to drag out war for whatever other reason (fun, spite, whatever).

On that note: if FS is swinging things around, they did right in staying in war. People calling for a surrender when the war is far from decided is, if not as bad then in the same ballpark, as refusing to surrender when a war is lost.

Above would be a reason never to whine in forums until the war has actually been concluded. A lil tip. You don't want to end up like the people who shouted for Free to surrender; only to embarrass themselves when Free pulled a win in the end. Looks are deceiving. Might just be that you're bad at utopia :p

Edit: Again, not siding with anyone here. Perhaps Pyro is right and FS drags this on for no valid reason (it being fun is not a valid reason). Perhaps FS is right and the tide of the war can be turned, in which case some posters from Pyro should be be both embarrassed and ashamed ;)

Edit 2: Some of the reasons FS players have given for staying in war ("why leave, we're having fun") are faulty reasons to stay in conflict, thus why I posted. But I hope these are just personal opinions, and that the leadership of FS has decided to keep waring because they think they can win.

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Originally Posted by Tadpole

Edit 2: Some of the reasons FS players have given for staying in war ("why leave, we're having fun") are faulty reasons to stay in conflict, thus why I posted. But I hope these are just personal opinions, and that the leadership of FS has decided to keep waring because they think they can win.

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Last I checked, utopia is a game.

What is the goal of a game?

Having fun is absolutely a valid reason to stay in any conflict, or do whatever the hell you feel like doing.

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Originally Posted by Meep

Last I checked, utopia is a game.

What is the goal of a game?

Having fun is absolutely a valid reason to stay in any conflict, or do whatever the hell you feel like doing.

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Winning is the goal of any game.